943. - Hrishikesh Hirway

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Hey guys, Jason here. Really quick. Chris's recording got a little messed up, so we used his Zoom recording for the intro, but for the interview portion after the commercial break, he sounds back to normal. If you hate it, just fast forward about 15 minutes, but it still sounds pretty good. Thanks for listening. How long gone? Good to hear from you, bitch. It's Chris Black. I'm back in New York. The sun is shining. It's a little chilly, but we're going to power through. TJ, you're still holding it down, if I'm not mistaken. I'm over here at the Nine Orchard, room 6E. Beautiful little corner view of Dime Square. I got to see a lot of stuff go down on the block over the last few days. There was a... you know some skaters who can't skate a couple chinese funerals some yelling all kinds of stuff that obviously sums it up perfectly those are the three things i experience most well for my purview i also have basketball and and pull-up bars but it's not that much it's not that much different than would you rather have basketball pull-up bars i've got the sound of ping pong kind of deeper into the forest it's not exactly right on the corner but i get a lot of um stand-up comedians who film talk shows about dating and stuff on the street oh sure sure what's your biggest it uh yeah no i i know i know no there's a lot going on bro i'm happy to be back in new york i felt like you know we got this

We got this roast. We got Iceman in just a few days now. I can't contain my excitement. Fire and ice with the roast and the man, huh, Chris? These roasts, I just like that the roasts are now about how much these comedians hate each other and have nothing to do with the actual roast and the point of the whole gathering. No, the point of a roast and a gathering is to show that you hate somebody but also respect them enough to prepare you know, 15 minutes worth of material. I think that may be what it used to be. That's what it used to be. Now it's Chelsea Handler and Shane Gillis going toe-to-toe over who can be the meanest, which is fine for us as the winners, as the viewers. A queen like you loves to see a mean-off no matter who's doing it. I wonder how much, you know, because they all claim they're getting paid, which I'm sure is true. And I also know that it's not a... a flat fee that matches per person so i'm wondering who who you know is cat williams getting the most because he's a holdout are they having to pay the rock the most because he's the most you know who knows does the rock do it for free because he's the homie because kevin really needs it you know if he doesn't come out it's kind of you know it's like they're roasting the guy from the other guy from salem and you know jack don't come out it's kind of like yeah yeah we gotta talk about this all right so The roast of the bass player from The Strokes, ladies and gentlemen. Salem Supreme collab got announced today, which is great. Again, this is one man's sort of understanding of the artwork, but tell me if you agree. It looks like a cartoon painkiller. Sort of like a sports mascot, but it's a cartoon Percocet. And then... What is the Percocet holding? So it's in the style of like a minor league baseball team logo, you know. Savannah Banana's ass looking logo. It's giving mud sharks, you know, just a little bit. You know, it's kind of cute. It's kind of kitschy, but it's a seriously hand-drawn cartoon. I'm sure they, you know, sourced a professional who does this for a living and said, yeah, make the guy, instead of it being a mud shark or a banana, turn him into...

a perk 30 or whatever it may be a round generic pill that's meant to you know sedate and and etc and then instead of swinging a baseball bat i believe he's using a uh stolen catalytic converter as the uh as his hitting tool i have to say this is all great but when i saw because i didn't scroll through the full collection which is like you know like a jacket a couple t-shirts the hoodie of course and they did the um They did the socks that you get at the hospital. All my fellow people who have OD'd will know about these socks. I mean, to be fair, if you've gone to the hospital for it, they have the grip on the bottom. They could be confused for Pilates socks if you live in the West Village. But if you've really gotten it out of the mud before, you know. When it comes to Salem, they're always referencing drugs. And I have to say, it's one of the greatest things I've ever seen. Making hospital socks with your Percocet collection is top-level stuff. Top-level stuff. Yeah, I mean, Supreme never really lets us down with their cruise collections. And 2026, you know, continues on. I think that... The amount of people who are going to wear that and be able to pull it off well, it's low, and I think that's what is cool about Supreme. I would say almost zero. It's almost zero. Unfortunately, all of these items will be bought with bar mitzvah money instead of people who do drugs and play baseball and steal Catholic converters and get face tats and shoot people and have sex with people. Look, I think there's going to be one person who has stolen a catalytic converter before that will also buy this. I think there might be one. Only one. Only one. But one's better than zero. No, I know a lot of guys who would wear this who have worked at Supreme who have maybe stolen a catalytic converter. Those people are all on Flow Team, so they're going to get it for free. Yeah, they're going to get it for free. If you get it on Flow Team, you can pull it off, and otherwise, no. Tim, don't even think about it. Tim, do not even think about pulling out. You ain't never touched a perk, Tim. Do not think about it. You got to stick to the little skeet Margiela hoodie. But I think the overdose socks really plays into...

that prime, you know, Salem it girl demographic of like, yeah, I overdosed again. What are you going to do about it? Call the cops. I'll fucking suck their dick too. Like the whole. you know we're getting dirty we're i'm getting kidnapped i'm getting dropped off in the woods and what is the sock i need for that there's only one sock and this is it um god bless and i would wear these and also the color it's kind of like that's what but that's what they give you that's literally the color they give you like that color it's like the candy striper 50s you know, Easter egg teal. They can't just give you black or white. Normal style. Not like the good people over at Motivate Pilates. They have a great selection of colors with their socks. But yeah, this one, you know, it's a particularly terrible color in the best way possible. If they make those socks in a, you know, a little double XL men's for somebody with a larger body size, you know, please bless me. I would hate to have to hire somebody off of Timu or... to kind of draft up the pattern on this one and get a little small run made for me and the bigger dogs. Yeah, big guys like to overdose too, okay? Big guys love to overdose. Talk to Lamar Odo. Talk to Lamar Odo. Lammy. Not Lam-Lam. Also, though, in TJ news, one for me, one for you, it seems that R&B superstar Chris Brown, a.k.a. Team Breezy, has been given a... 1.3 from our friends over at pitchfork with a with a one or two sentence uh review and i just wanted to know as a as a representative for the team breezy community with tickets to the to the usher chris brown co headline do you have anything to say for the community can you represent sort of i know they didn't i know they didn't give you a statement to read you didn't prepare anything but if you just a few words on the subject would be great if you don't sure okay okay Well, I'm assuming, okay, this review, the Chris Brown 1.3 was written by a guy named Alphonse Pierre, and I think he has seen 1.3 pussies in his entire life. Got him! I would, you know, I kind of skimmed through the album, Brown.

2026. There's too many songs. I only know that from listening to Joe Budden because I go, hell yeah, he gave us 27 pack. I'm like, I don't think I want that. Hit me with the 27 piece. It's a seven disc set. I mean, I guess it's kind of like, what do you want? Which way, Western man, do you want the 26 minute Addison Rae full length? Or do you want, you know, two hours and 47 minutes of Bryson Tiller? featuring Janelle Monae and stuff like that. But I would say, you know, to Alphonse Pierre, which that name is just a little too good. It sounds like it could be a stage name. I'm sure it's not. I haven't clicked on his byline. I'm sure he's written plenty of his work. Oh, this was written by Dave from Chromio. Is that what you're saying? Hold on. Whose pen name is this? Hold on. Which one of y'all is playing with us? But it's also kind of weird because taking the, you know, whoever Alphonse Pierre actually is in real life. I think it's smart to take people off the scent, giving yourself an extremely French-sounding name because that's one of the only countries, you know, in NATO that has no problem with Chris Brown's actions. You know what I mean? It's sort of... He could be Quebecois. Not to bring Dave back into it, but he could be Quebecois. Le plat thickens like a fucking gravy, doesn't it, Chris? Le plat thickens? Yeah, le plat thickens. Le beurre blanc. Okay. Well, I would say obviously a Chris Brown album in 2026 that has, you know, 28 tracks on it. I'm sure there's a couple, you know, doggy style skits in between some of the larger movements, you know, not unlike a Rosalia album, but you know, there's going to be some winners. There's going to be some singles. And I, I would say Alphonse Pierre refer to, I think it's track three. It's called honey pack. Yeah. Honey, honey pack focus is a popular erectile dysfunction. remedy it's kind of like like gas station viagra type thing right you go you go to the store you get you know you get some papers you get some blunt wraps you get some alcohol and you get let me get some raws let me get a cut let me get a raw a raw pack yeah yeah pick up a nice uh fella cootie set of rolling papers ian snuck that in my little bag i see a nice little side promo he knew i'd give him a shout out p uh peabody award winning documentary i believe right pull it's there bro

Pulitzer. Oh, not the lowercase P, the uppercase P. Yeah, but not skateboard. Not skateboard. The other one. Okay, so Honey Pack, I skimmed the lyrics. It kind of focuses on the intersection of Hennessy and paying for sex. And what else does somebody want in a modern R&B anthem? Real talk. I mean, I'm not going to listen to Chris Brown, and not even because he's a bad guy, just because I'm not super into R&B. But I like the pitchfork. I like when pitchfork does this occasionally to someone. that it won't affect at all. You know what I mean? It's sort of like, Chris Brown fans don't know what Pitchfork is, and Pitchfork fans hate Chris Brown. So it's kind of a victimless crime. It's like the Onion doing a J.D. Vance meme. Yeah, it's like, who cares, dude? It all washes out in the end. When Pitchfork, you know, when they did the famous Jet thing, that's funny, because Jet was the, you know, it's fine. As long as you're not attacking working class rock bands that are getting attacked for their blue dots. I think we can let this go as a fair play. I would say a Toon Yards 4-7 was worse than a Chris Brown 1-3. It affects their bottom line more so, right? Don't get me started on Toon Yards, bro. We don't have enough time. We don't have time for that. I can't even begin to get into that. I was at Elmira last night, and they played Yuck. Oh, band Yuck. Love Yuck. I forgot about it. Listened to it all day today. Classic album. If you don't know Yuck, go look them up. Now that guy's a big Oscar award winner. Poser. Yuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Legendary sick man, too. He's dating Taylor Russell, Harry's ex. Man, get you a bald motherfucker. Get you a Jeff Ross-looking motherfucker. Then take your bitch. Powerful. Powerful action. Jeff Ross took your mixed bitch. That's crazy, bro. That's crazy. All right. We do have a guest today. We have a guest today. Don't worry. We're going to talk only about the roast of Kevin Hart with our guest today. Fret not, listeners. Yeah, don't worry. Rishi Cash-Hirway is joining us. You know him as the host and creator of... A very popular podcast. Where do we get that? Where do we get SongSploder? Was it PRX? I think they might be part of that little kind of collective of NPR-ish leaning people. We've all listened to SongSploder. I love the SongSploder TV show that REM and the Killers. And Dua Lipa. And Dua Lipa. The best part about that show is it proved Dua Lipa has never written a song, but that's another issue.

And he's also the 1AM Radio, a band that he is a project that he's been doing forever that I swear I've seen play in multiple DIY venues in my short life. Danger Bird Records alum, I believe. Oh, shit. Wow, Danger Bird Records. God bless. He's got the Silver Sun connection. A beloved how-long-gone band, Silver Sun Pickups. LA's finest. KCRW's finest. All right, well, let's give him a jingle and get into it. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions, but how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts.

Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy and I was honestly surprised to get the invitation. So thrilled. Every podcast needs to have its lowest performing episode. That's actually, factually, that is true. Batter up, double H, batter up. No, but I mean, because you, I mean, your name is definitely recognized in the halls of podcast history because, you know, you and I have both been potting for a long time, beasting in the underground, you know, trying to use it as, I was realizing we have a lot of similarities. Having a musical career, you a little more folky singer-songwriter with an electric touch, me more. EDM and hip hop style DJing, but we both use the podcast medium as a way to maybe boost our profile and career as a musician in hopes that that would help you become a famous musician or a DJ. And then the side project ends up being a bit of a attention stealer. Well, I have to say, I definitely wasn't thinking about my own profile when I started. Oh, really? I was very consciously trying to be like... Thank God. You shouldn't talk to Dax Shepard then. That's good for you. No, you're saying you're doing it from a place of brightness, a place of peace. Like, I just want to do this, so let's do it. Well, it wasn't peace exactly because I basically had intense writer's block and wasn't doing...

music at all and i needed something to sort of fill the void and i went back to my brain for the first time in my adult life to see what other ideas i might have and um and the podcast was something that i'd kind of been thinking about in bits and pieces for years and so then i started it but i was i was really feeling like i was like i don't want it to feel like maybe i'm trying to do exactly what you you said jason you know like i wasn't trying to uh say, hey, this is a thing that's about my music in any kind of way. So in the very first pilot version of it, I literally don't speak. Okay, go ahead. The plan for it was I was going to have the guests do all the intros and outros. Oh, so you're just going to stitch it together. Basically. You were the Suge Knight of NPR. You don't want your podcast hosts all in the intro, all in the outro. So you let your guests or maybe you force your guests to do all of your work for you in exchange for no money. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And no profile. Yeah. No exposure, no money. It might have more negative than positive effects, you know, at the end. Okay. Well, that. Yeah. I guess it makes. So in no way were you like, okay, if this podcast thing. ends up taking off then you know maybe maybe we'll start getting some more gigs start getting some more features start getting some bigger studios etc no i was really thinking like this is my day job i don't necessarily need to tell anybody about my day job as it pertains to my music life yeah yeah i get i also think it was a long time ago you know what i mean in a good way in a way where it's like i could see that line of thinking, whatever, 10 years ago or more. I mean, it was before podcasting was what it is today too, you know? Yeah, I mean, the halls of podcast history that you mentioned, Jason, they aren't even... finished being built yet that's right shows are older than the halls of history that's right because the how the how long gone wing is unfortunately still under construction and it's okay well i mean well you and i like i had a podcast a long time ago called tall tales and chris would come on as a guest every once in a while actually i just played a wedding over the weekend and a couple people there were like yo we've been listening since tall tales so and that was you know 15 years ago yeah and it was back back when you were starting as well what like 2012 ish something like that

2014, the first episode came out. Back before we were all wife guys. Back before, yeah, when we were just single podcasters on the prowl for poontang. Famously, famously. Honestly, that narrative has changed too, man. Look, we got Jake Shane out here. Who knows what he's doing? You know what I mean? So our names are in the foundation or maybe the sub-flooring of the halls of podcast history. Maybe. That's a fair way to it. It's still not being built, but that 1.0 version of podcasting, it really was like a beautiful Wild West where... It was like when we were talking to our friend Al earlier today, like when Twitter first came out, it had that Wild West feel to it of like, oh, I'm just going to ask this celebrity a question. they don't realize that they can just ignore it like for whatever reason for whatever reason you know michelle pfeiffer has to clap back to what you said about her you know what i mean or whatever it is and podcasting felt the same way you're just like talking into the void and maybe someone listens to it maybe doesn't and now in 2026 we have ai tools that can pull out every time you say a racial slur and make a infographic about it to post on a you know the hollywood reporter or whatever it is it's a different vibe it's a different vibe uh there was a podcast that popped up last year that was generated by ai called song explorer that's that's cool all right so what did it what did it sound like let me guess did it maybe sound like song explorer or was it was it a different it was it was like a five minute episode about a taylor swift song and it was you know some ai voice talking about It was more like in the switched on pop kind of vein, you know, like let's discuss the song from... some relative distance and you know it's more like music music criticism um just condensing everything that had been written about that song into the worst possible how long did this how long did this ai podcast i mean i know that the running time was five minutes how long did the series last or did it still put out 78 episodes per day don't worry yeah as far as i know they're still they're still uh yeah putting out many many episodes they're cranking it was a daily

podcast yeah i mean with ai still be there it can be whatever you it can be every minute every day we know whatever you want it handles it all do you think they're gonna like create some type of like bot restricted like uploading things like how we have to prove that we're a human to you know download a file or whatever we have to show all the stop signs or crosswalks is there something where we can human because like what is it like 40 of podcasts being uploaded an hour completely automated ai i don't remember what the percentage was but it was oh wow i didn't know that it was a lot like like like millions of podcast episodes are uploaded fully you know autonomously through ai i think it's worse with music because yeah you know mostly i think people are coming to podcasts for the people not so much the topic right you know they want to hang with you and whatever you want to talk about but for some reason Yeah, something like 44,000 new AI-generated songs are uploaded to DSPs every single day. I bet some of them slap. That's the fucked up part. I bet some of them are kind of good low-key. I don't know if, I mean, I like to think I'm very discerning, but obviously we have Drake's Iceman coming out Friday. There's been a lot of quote-unquote leaks that are AI-generated, and I will listen to Leak. I'll be like, hey, man, if I just listen to this briskly walking down the street, sounds pretty good to me. People are like, the cadence is wrong. He would never use that metaphor. This, this, this. I'm like, yeah, sure. But I'm saying overall, even to someone who knows better, it's pretty good. Yeah. Okay, well, Chris, maybe you can use your Claudebot to sign some of these emerging AI talents autonomously. Yeah, I would love to. It's just printing money. So then do we have people who are using AI to then listen to these songs? Oh, to gain the system? Because if I'm releasing 100 AI episodes of my fake podcast about Taylor Swift or whatever I think is going to get the most clicks.

My five-minute fake podcast is going to get, what, 11 listens? It's not really going to generate revenue unless I create a bot farm of listeners who are then going to listen to it, and then my Squarespace check's going to come in. It's going to be small, but I'm going to get $78,000 $4 checks every month from Squarespace. Oh, it gets real black mirror real fast because there's like an actual... person from one of these companies talking about how she only needs to get something like seven listeners per episode in order to to make back the cost of you know whatever it costs to make this thing so she her strategy is just to absolutely blast the universe with as many things as possible and hope like you know if one of them gets like a hundred listens that's a windfall. Yeah, yeah, sure. She's rolling in it. Got to open a new checking account. Yeah. So it's kind of like penny stocks with penny tracks, I guess. Yeah, exactly. You just cast a wide net. Penny tracks is a good name for our AI label. We'll save that. That's a good, that's not a bad name. Where do you live? Do you live in LA or New York? I'm in LA, yeah. Oh, you are? Okay, okay. I should have been able to tell. I know you're doing well, but the space that we're seeing feels like a little big. Oh, no, no, no, no. Not happening in New York. Where are you from originally? Massachusetts. Okay. Because I was saying to Jason, I feel like I've seen the 1AM radio play in some... I would say... speaking of sub floor, some DIY venues maybe that could feel like, did you, did you play in Atlanta a lot? Didn't you? Um, not a ton, but, uh, I was actually wondering if there was any chance you were at this house show that I played with portrait. Oh, hell yeah. Definitely was definitely was portrait portrait. Actually. I just, a guy from Atlanta did like an NTS show of Atlanta, like recently. And it really portrait was, I think that,

I mean, we've talked about this a lot on the show, but that weird like... you know, Satya Jerome's dream orchid world having this huge comeback is like Satya selling like a thousand tickets is so crazy to me. But yes, Portrait was Atlanta's best. Yes. You know, but I do, I probably have that flyer somewhere, honestly. Yeah. Okay, Portrait is Atlanta's best what for? Like screamo, like that kind of screamo sort of like. Paint a portrait of what type of music we're talking about. We're talking about some DIY screamo. Yeah, I mean, right. How would you describe it, Rishikesh? Yeah, and I would say it's sort of like... these bands were kind of like the literati of the scream yes that's true it was a little it was a little like you were scaring the hoes for a minute but i think we're coming back now guys quote unquote smarter you know what i mean i would say like there was a certain the thinking man's blood brothers exactly i would have a little bit of a spock rock haircut white belt energy around the the outer ring but when you got in yeah they were all skinny it was like a very it was very like they would play with the more straight ahead, no pun intended, hardcore bands like Revelation Records, Victory Records bands, Equal Vision. But it was like a little more like, we like the makeup, you know? Yeah, okay, I'm with it. And Jerome's Dream was supposed to play that show because we were on tour together. And that was, you know, another distinguishing thing about them. Like they took the emo, the emotional part of emo very seriously, bringing, you know, a solo. sad boy singer songwriter like me with them as their opener yeah that that's because they're pretty they're pretty lit like live it's like a show yeah you know what i mean yeah so you're saying you would be opening these shows you're up there solo dolo on a chair standing standing so okay okay all right this has a real get you get you a fan who could do both kind of because i love stuff like that because when you have a lineup of like a crazy intense screaming band you know thrashing their bodies all over the stage and

you know, kicking a hole in the drum kit, and then we got your Pedro the Lion ass up there doing your little acoustic guitar. And if you, like, I'm in a room in North Carolina with 78 people who all love both of these acts. These are my people. If I fit in this room, then I'm surrounded by my future wife or husband or best friend or whatever it is, you know? Yeah, exactly, yeah. My set would be when everybody would sit down and all the kids would sort of huddle together in there. their hoodies and hold hands wow really wow yeah yeah yeah like there's a school shooter no no no like the couples would sorry not everybody holding hands all together yeah it wasn't a cuddle it wasn't a seance no no it wasn't the cuddle play i i just think that because we've said stuff like this before it's like an interesting because there just wasn't like in theory you shouldn't you should have been playing somewhere else with someone else you know what i mean but but there wasn't somewhere else or to play that was like sort of where if you were in any sort of underground music no matter what the actual genre was you kind of got grouped in together and would play together because that's all there was yeah yeah there was no venue for like fugazified singer-songwriters yeah that's a small yeah i know what you mean but it's like when people yeah i don't know people like oh that's so weird i'm like it really wasn't weird it was like that that's i'm sure elliot smith was playing hardcore shows too like everybody that's what everybody did it was the whole thing i remember thinking back now you would see those crazy weird lineups and everyone really was respectful and it was at a peak disrespect was happening in the rest of the world but we didn't think it was that weird for pedro the lion to open for kill switch engage you know it's just like yeah this is just what we do man there's a singer songwriter opening for botch in every city in america it's like yeah shit whatever bro i'll buy your record too man this is sick absolutely so you were were you touring if you're solo were you like in the car yeah we would sometimes we would tour you know um so jerome's dream was a trio so we just split it up two cars two of us in each car wow

Okay, you're playing acoustic or you're playing electric? No, I'd play electric and I had a little drum machine. Yes, yes. Foot switch operated drum machine. Of course, okay. So basically before every song, you just hit the button. Well, because it was foot switch operated, sometimes I could do it in the middle of the song. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't catch the foot. Okay, oh shit, I'm sorry, I didn't catch that. You're on some other shit. Yeah, really high tech. All right, so you think you're Ed Sheeran up there in the fucking band? Okay, all right, all right. You got the little, okay. So you were the proto-digital busker. before okay this is great this is great what do you what what was this foot operated drum machine model number just for our audio files i think if i'm not it was the dr rhythm boss [redacted address]. Rhythm couldn't be a better name for a product than Dr. Rhythm. How long did you do this and how much did your parents hate it? Oh, yeah, even by having my drum machine called Dr. Rhythm, it somehow didn't satisfy my Indian parents. They're like, oh, Dr. Rhythm. How about you fucking try that? That's a good name. It's better than the name you had before. And you're like, no, that's not the band name. That's the name of the drum machine. Your drum machine went to medical school. Would it kill you to go to graduate school? How'd this fucking machine graduate? I didn't even know machines could do that. Okay, so when you started... getting success with the podcast did your parents begin to respect you yet or not so much what is it going to take well they didn't know what a podcast was so um it took it took a while took a while what do you think their dreams for you were oh i mean before i could express my disinclination they definitely hoped that i would be a doctor okay are either of the are either of your parents doctors my dad has a phd technically so he is doctor here way okay um but uh but no my my mom had uh lawyers and doctors in her family and so when i said uh no and her and her father was a judge so it was like either you know be a doctor and if you're not gonna be a doctor okay i suppose we can settle for the family tradition of law school or you know okay so when you when you try to explain them the sort of

discord records values they weren't interested in that okay got it i'm not surprised i'm not totally surprised okay so you're doing all that are they like letting you cook obviously because you're going on you're young when you're doing all this music stuff and you're touring in a car and shit that's like a whole are they just cool they're like this is a phase or was it sort of like we've lost this motherfucker let's just pray and at that point i think they were still like do your hobby, that's okay, that's fine. I'm sure you had good grades and you were pretty reasonable as a person. Yeah, they noticed that I was, I think, they were losing me a little bit when I decided to be an art major in college. But then I said, look, I'm learning graphic design and then I'm using that graphic design to make websites and that was a big freelance job back then. And so they were like, okay, we... There's a practical thing. You're using a computer. We understand that software engineering is also a job, and I guess that's maybe close to that. I love it. They're just doing hula hoops to figure out a way to be like, okay, wait, this one I think is going to, this one's going to work. So how many, how many websites for, you know, corporate accounts did you get back in the day? You know, it was more like, it was more like I made a website for my friend's band and they bought me a burrito. Yeah. I knew, I knew, I knew there was a burrito payment involved in this. I knew, I knew. Yeah. But it's funny because I know a lot of, I know a lot of people, obviously hardcore is, is full of kind of people like, like this, like sort of like your parents want more for you. They've been relatively successful. You didn't, you weren't in the slums. You know what I mean? You, you, you had the opportunity to do whatever you wanted. And then they're, they're a little bit bummed when you choose to do something else. But I, my point is I know most. of my hardcore leaders did go to college and graduate, frankly enough. Which I didn't, and neither did Jason. But I think most people I knew did. Was that something you wanted to, or you felt like you had to, or a little bit of both? I mean, there was no choice involved. Education was, for my parents, that was the thing. We came to this country for opportunities. Education was the way to have any kind of good life. They just wanted to make sure that I could

pay my bills and have, uh, some kind of stability, which I didn't have for, well, still don't have, but, um, they, they just really, you know, I know it came from a good place, but they were just like, music was not any kind of paradigm that we had any exposure to or, or anything. They, they really liked you learn an instrument. Cause that's like well-rounded kid. Exactly. Oh yeah. Yeah. They're like, they're down with that. Oh, piano. All right, bet. Go ahead. Yeah, it was their idea. Do you have brothers and sisters that are in more traditional, let's say, jobs? Yeah, I have an older sister who really took the heat off me because she was a bio major and she's a biostatistician epidemiologist. She has a master's degree. What are her thoughts on ivermectin? Damn, she really is shitting you. You're like, mom, I met Dua Lipa. It's on camera. Like, what the fuck? What do you mean? You don't like that song? Everybody likes that song. Okay, so your job only seems to impress the younger cousins in the Hereway family, maybe? It was so exciting to discover that, yeah, my cousins even knew anything about this world. But my cousins, I found out, you know, just... She lived in India at the time, and I was like, Saeed, I feel like I know a little bit about your music. You might like this band. I think it was Asobi Seksu I sent her. I was like, I think you might like this. And she was like, oh yeah, I read about them on Pitchfork last week. And I was like, you know, I know the internet's everywhere. I know Pitchfork.com is accessible from all regions, but this seems crazy. Yeah, I mean, I guess that must have happened to you at some point. You went from being just a regular cousin to a Pitchfork reader. It happens to all of us, you know? Yeah. I have a gay cousin who will hit me every six months with some like, do you know Lana Del Rey? Have you met Lana Del Rey yet since the last time I texted you? It's literally, it's every six months there's a gay icon. And I would say one of four times I do know them and I feel really good about myself. The other three, I'm like, something to.

work on yeah something to work on bro i'll get there i'll get there one yeah you know no i mean i was doing all of this uh i was trying to thread the needle between um doing what i wanted and also still trying to like win the respect and admiration of my parents yeah um especially when my mom was still alive now I'm really just doing stuff to try and impress my 11-year-old niece. Look, that's what I'm saying. It graduates, it fluctuates, it moves, it ebbs, it flows. I think there's always got to be a North Star. So is it easier dealing with your 11-year-old niece than your dad? Is your dad saying, when are you going to pivot to video, motherfucker? Or is your niece saying, why aren't you pivoting to video yet? My niece will be like, you should do an episode of Song Exploder with this YouTube creator who I love. Their songs are really funny. You're like, have you listened to my shit? It ain't funny. That ain't the point. We go wrong, bitch. We ain't trying to be funny. We're talking to Cat Stevens. All right, listen up. I think she might have listened for the first time. when I had Sabrina Carpenter on. Then she was very, very excited. That's fair. I mean, that's fair. Sabrina Carpenter. Gag that cousin. Oh, I just dropped a new episode. I forgot who it is. Do you know Sabrina Carpenter or something like that? I think she was like a Disney. She was on TV or something. What Sabrina Carpenter song did you do, by the way? Sorry. Please, please, please. Two. So when you're listening to these songs, what do you think your average listen is? before you sit down to chop it up with whoever it is. Like how many times am I listening? How many licks does it take to get to the center of the... How many times do you got a hit until it explodes? Yeah, exactly. A song. A song. How many times do you got a hit before the song explodes? Look, when I like a song... Like, you know, if I like, I have a song right now on my phone, I've probably listened to 30 times in the last two days because it's new and I like it and I just, you know, but I don't know if that would prepare me. Noah Kahn, Noah Kahn, you know, so soon. Yeah, exactly. I don't know if that would prepare me to talk the way you talk because you have to go into it with a mindset of what the end result is or can you just listen passively and the sort of thoughts come to you. You know what I mean? When I'm doing the interview?

I'm saying in preparation, because you're clearly preparing something we don't do here. And I guess I'm saying I could listen to a song a million times. You mentioned the 1 a.m. radio, Chris. That is incredible preparation. Well, Chris didn't do his research. Chris was there. I lived it, baby. I lived it. It's a lived experience. He wasn't there. You were. No, but I guess I'm saying that I listen to songs over and over and over, and maybe I'll learn the words passively. But I'm saying you're getting so in-depth on the structure of the song. You're listening, but you're having to take. notes and think about it in a different way you can't just do that off the dome yeah i will you know the real secret of the show the whole reason the show exists and you know i don't it takes zero licks because i get the stems for the song so i can go straight to the center of the tootsie pop i'm losing the metaphor to the center of the what This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept quote unquote donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How Long Gone.

It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. Much like a DJ, like Them Jeans, who's been hired to do one of his famous re-edits, they send you the stems, and you're breaking it down from the get-go. I bet you've heard some nasty raw vocals. Oh, baby. Oh, my goodness. Okay, well, some of these songs, like when I would get a stem for a remix, it's because I have been asked to remix a song, and they trust that I will not share these files, and I will send them back a remix. What happens when you get some of these songs where the stems are not meant to be released at all to anyone? Do you have to sign an NDA? Yeah. Some of the tunes, they're getting you some real, they're dusting off the fine shit from at the top of the cellar. Like reel-to-reel stems and shit like that sometimes? I mean, that's been some of the craziest times on the show. I mean, we just did an episode with...

Buckingham Knicks, and the stems didn't exist, and they didn't even know where the tapes were. So they wanted to do the show. Hey, bro, we were two eight balls in. We put those in a basement somewhere, bro. We snorted those tapes, bro. Exactly. I think we snorted those tapes by accident. I don't even know, bro. So did you have to use AI to break those stems down? No, although that has been suggested a few times. Okay. But no, they actually tracked down the tapes in the archives, found them. dusted them off, digitized them, and then we got to do it. Damn, that's honestly powerful because I feel like you're... Do you feel like you get what you want most of the time because it's pretty prestigious and sort of a rite of passage? Or do you think people are a little scared to have the raw stems exposed on such a large platform? No, I mean, so now we have this thing going where there is a label who will just not work with us anymore because they... they don't want to share their stems at all. But there was a, I imagine there was a tipping point for this stem. Yeah, is this like a Celine and Condé Nast type of thing? Yeah, like you gave a bad review of the show and they won't let you ever come to another show again? No, no, it's not like personally directed. at at song exploder it's just sort of a blanket policy that uh and we're we're catching it we don't stem it just seems like i mean i don't know it just seems like such a great as far as like because all this you know all the discourse now is about how you know quote-unquote celebrity interviews are trash it's People saying nothing. They don't know anything about this. They don't know anything about that. They're asking about smoothies and fucking, you know, what TV show you watch. So I feel like musicians, a lot of them would love to be taken seriously as artists. Like Sabrina Carpenter, I think is a great example. Like she's so big that no one even thinks of her like that because she's such a pop star. It's like that doesn't even cross people's minds. So the opportunity to showcase that with you seems like for a label, a great opportunity. I think, you know, for some people, for some musicians, it is the thing that,

feels right i mean it's the reason why i made the show is because i was like i want to make a show that asks the questions that i wish somebody would ask me yeah yeah yeah yeah sure i mean that makes sense i just i just feel like it's like it's it's palatable even though it's it's serious and kind of in the weeds i think it hits a sweet spot where it's like still entertaining i mean brother fucking the netflix thing is that happening again or was that a one and done i was one and done unfortunately Those motherfuckers... Come on. You got in too early, bro. You got in too early. They spent $100 million on a roast at Kevin Hart. They can't break you off a couple bills? I don't... I mean... Okay, well, what if they turn it into a... a video podcast instead of a TV show. You know what I mean? I don't think we could do it. You still get the same amount of money, just none of your employees get paid. Is that cool with you? Yeah, yeah. As well as no benefits whatsoever. Yeah, yeah, no. No healthcare, nothing like that. I thought it was, I was like, this is such a great, I mean, I'm a big REM. Like that shit, I was getting choked up. That shit is no joke. Yeah. Like watching Stipe react to that, it's like unbelievable to me. I was like, this is exactly what I want to watch on television. Goosebumps on those white big thighs, huh, Chris? Really, you know. But I mean, and I understand that it's not for everybody, but I also feel like you guys went pretty like, I mean, maybe mainstream is the wrong word, but it was pretty like palatable. You know, it was R.E.M., The Killers, Dua Lipa. I think there's one. Was there one more? There were. Yeah, there was also Alicia Keys, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Natalia LaFarcade. Ty Dolla $ign. Except for Lin-Manuel Miranda, all those are legends. Yeah, yeah. All those are good musicians. But Lin-Manuel Miranda, I get it. You want the Broadway crowd. I get it. Like, you got to pander a little bit. But I'm saying, like, that to me feels like... I got the HamiltonStems.zip. I got held up at gunpoint for my Hamilton Stems. But I think that that's what I mean. It felt like a... I don't know. That's disappointing, and I know that's how it goes, but it felt like that was a... You guys played ball as far as, like, the actual... And I'm sure you didn't have much of a choice, but still.

you say people you you want to have a situation where you can ask people questions that you wish you would be answered and maybe there's a void that you're trying to fill have you ever had a moment where you were going through the stems and you are a musician you have a musical ear you're proficient in pro tools and and things like that so have you ever been like i finally got the fuck these fucking fleetwood max stems i've been dying to hear what it sounds like with just the bass and the drums in the pocket you know without all the other stuff like have you ever hit that moment you're like do you guys ever hear with just this and this and then have the the guests be like yeah i mean it's really fun to get people to because the other thing that makes it magical besides letting the listeners hear those parts on their own, is it's a real memory triggering device for people. Because it's hard to get people to think about what their actual mental state was, what their creative intention was in the moment, if you're just talking about it. But when you play that stuff, sometimes it's the first time they've heard it since. making the track and when they hear it it's like a you know Proustian that's what I'm saying that's the trick that's what makes it that to me is what I do think that's the whole thing that's the ratatouille moment exactly it's like when they play like old you know songs from the 30s and 40s to people with Alzheimer's and you know they've been non-verbal for five years and then they hear and they just get up out of their seat and start dancing that sound memory it hits you doesn't it yeah exactly almost as much as the smell but that's what I mean I think when you're asking somebody to explain a lyric in a fucking hotel room it's a little different you know what i mean it's a little it's a little it's just a different you know whatever it's just a different sort of approach to the whole thing yeah here they they only have to react to themselves have you ever made a remix out of the stems and presented it to them uh you know yeah let me hold on unsolicited of course while i have you just while i have you if you want to check this out look i know fleetwood mac dreams it's a good little track but i kind of mixed did it move some things around i think it kind of sings a little bit

better i think i did this shuffle that you're gonna like i think i i just stick with me do you have anything in the private folder you know what i mean for those dj sets oh man um that would be no comment no comment yeah sure of course i need a little arthur arthur russell rework ass version of some shit you know it's it's a remix it's only the ums that i cut out yeah yeah of course yeah real podcast style it's your podcast um reflex on hand so you I heard you on our friend of the show, Blamo's podcast, and you were talking about how much you edit the audio version of your podcast, and that's a big reason why the thought of pivoting to video might not work for you. The format, because you're doing, what, 20 cuts a minute or something you said. That's just going to be too jarring, even for today's ADD standards. Are you super good at editing audio now, and have you thought about... giving video a try only be out of necessity because now i have to make tick tocks because if you're a musician these days like you have to you're also putting out videos. So yeah, I've been learning Premiere, making my little reels. You literally sound like Jason. You literally, that's exactly, Jason has said those exact words to me before. And I also sound like how you just sounded, which is like a five-year-old telling his parent what they did at preschool today. And then I made my reels and good, good. And then I got to have lunch. Okay. So are you going at it with like a positive attitude or? Is it like goddamn son of a bitch? I hate that I have to do front facing to camera. Hey guys, check out my new album. You know, like that kind of shit. Definitely the latter. Yeah, yeah. We got into audio for a reason. Yeah, exactly. And like I said, the first version, I didn't even speak. I would rather just be like, here's the thing and never have to, you know, say anything about it. Do you see it? Does it work though?

Do you know what I'm saying? Is there like, is there tangible? I don't think it does work. That's see, that's my, that's my, that's the, yeah. I mean, I think it's like, I think it can and will, but I do think it's like, I think it's been sold to us as this sort of like instantaneous fix to all of your problems. It's like, oh, you just got to do video. You open the app and the first one is a video that's got. gazillions of views and comments and you know it's somebody who's just like imagine if these two bands were put together it would sound like this and it's better than the guy in the car eating all the new crumble cookies every week you know what I mean at least at least this takes some talent yeah but there's always this little tease of like this could be you This could be maybe the next one is going to be the one that's going to suddenly make you feel legitimate as an artist. Well, let's workshop some ideas because I feel like those songs and those moments that go viral on social media, a lot of times there's, you know, it's a reaction to a meme. It is a new dance craze. It's a new whatever, like exciting forms of music, you know, club music, hip hop, like that kind of stuff. is going viral much easier than your iron and wine style of bedroom folk. So we're going to have to think outside the bedroom, aren't we? I will say it's not the most viral genre. No, no. I keep on starting all the videos with, here's a song about death, and yet it doesn't seem to... doesn't seem to catch okay well here's another idea so you have a song on the album that's all about the buffalo that live on catalina island off the coast of la california listeners okay research see okay so that's a phenomenon where like a friend of mine who works for the la times he's got this video series called 101 i think and he will go and explain these little random anomalies like oh did you know the light posts used to be this or where you know random stuff i feel like if you did a little we're taking a boat to catalina and we're gonna check out the buffalo and i'm gonna give you a history lesson about all these and i have a new song and it's about like do these buffaloes know that they're stuck on a little island off the coast of malibu do they do they wish they were back with the buffaloes and whatever vancouver bc or something yeah

You know, now we're getting somewhere. Yeah. And then they'll be forced to listen to the music. Yeah. What label are you on? Heeled Scales. Okay. Are they, is there pressure from them or is it pressure from yourself? It's pressure from myself. Do I talk to them about budgets or how does this work? I think we might have the budget as well as the performer on the phone right now with us, Jason. I think we might be. They're in the room with us now. Look, I don't need a glass bottom boat, but I'm going to need something that's got a little horsepower, okay? No, but it is funny, though. I think it's like it really is. It is sold to us as a heal all for all sort of creative problems is like video will fix you. Yeah. And I think that they're forgetting sometimes that. people some people are good at it and want to do it and some people are doing it with a gun to their head and it maybe isn't going to translate the exact same way and then there's always the disconnect potentially where the video does really well but that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to go listen to the song no 100 somewhere else or like the clip on the clip of the podcast is going to go uh viral but does that mean that the actual episode gets more listens no they they say that the the clip is the content nowadays it's no longer the vehicle to get you to listen to the podcast or the album so that means you're going to have to start putting ads in your songs are you okay with that yeah yeah yeah let's let's go ahead and get a better help chorus in there and we'll see how it works I mean, we have to think out like this. This shit is moving fast. Like there was a basketball game. There was a Knicks game and they superimpose green screen Kith logo on the floor. And I know that other podcasts, maybe they take place on a subway or something like that. Maybe there's going to be some green screen ads placed on there or all of your favorite TikTok shows or video things where the clip is the content. Now we have to start putting ads. on these clips. I like this for you. You could fit a square space mention in a bridge. It's not that crazy. It's not that crazy. This house is a square space. This house is a home. Hey, I want to tell you about this middle eight. I want to tell you about this. I think that there is going to be continuing pressure, but I think it's also, I think we have to give ourselves the grace to sort of figure out.

whatever the lane is that works for for you i mean whatever the video whatever that video thing is it doesn't necessarily have to be what everybody else is doing you know what i mean yeah yeah be yourself and if it doesn't work start cooking yeah or we just wait for some other app to rule our lives and then you know and then you adapt to that instead are you on tiktok as a user i i Technically now do have an account as of like a month ago with 29 followers. Your label forced you to? You don't use it. You don't like scroll. You're not like watching. Yeah, that's powerful. Good for you. I'm glad you can resist. I'm too old. Well, I have Instagram and that's really like I've got to put all the screen time warnings and everything so I don't. hang out on there too long why buy heroin when you got a free oxy at home i get it brother oh baby i need a hit i tell you what no no no no you see but you seem like a very calm controlled you seem like you're a pretty measured guy overall i think that the calm and the control are um are working against each other actually like the the control part is the thing that makes me the least calm So you're saying you can't like let go and let God or let other people help you because the control, your grip is so tight that it's maybe negative in the long run. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like I made this record where we did the whole thing live and it was just the most stressful thing in my life because I couldn't go and be, you know, go back and do the things I would normally do. And you also had to have other people play instruments. because you can only play one or two maybe at the most at a time exactly okay do you think there's somebody out there who can edit song exploder better than you can oh god probably but if you if you if you paid them to have that job they would make more money than you oh

No. Well, that's how I feel about how long gone. If I found somebody to edit the show with this cadence and, you know, three episodes a week and they go up the next day and blah, blah, blah. If somebody asked me to do that, I would ask for an annual salary that is a large amount. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes, exactly. That's, yeah. To do this job for someone as a real grown-up job, it would... Nobody would do it. It would make no sense. Yeah, you set the search parameter filters for what you're looking for, and wouldn't you know it, zero results found. Yeah, exactly. It's just a picture of myself. Yeah, it's just you. It just turns on the selfie cam. It's you, motherfucker. Get back to work. Quit Googling shit. You're locked in now. But also, you're so good at it. You know yourself. You know the show. You know the flow. You do it all yourself. The thought of splitting up that podcast money with other people. You have a standard of living that we can't really upset. Other people work on the show, and I would absolutely die without them. What, pussy? Just kidding. But when you're in the zone, you're in the zone solo. Yeah, I mean, we all kind of work solo, and then we kind of come back and, you know. How many people are on the squad? Three of us, four of us, if you include the illustrator who does all the artwork for every episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, I mean, and how many are you banking? Like how many are in the hopper at any given time? You know, if things are really, really great, then we've got like the next one on deck and the next one after that. So two. two in the hopper besides the one that we're working on crazy yeah that's not that i thought it might be a little crazier than that because you but it's always on it's not seasonal right right exactly no it's always on yeah i mean again another reason why nobody would want this job well that's what i said the always on thing is also very podcasting 1.0 yeah yeah that's very podcasting 1.0 i feel like no one really or if they do do that if they do do it it's like

once a month you know or some like fake schedule where it's like it doesn't really count you know what i mean yeah yeah because we only do two a month so having having even two in there means we're you know six weeks out you got time yeah yeah and what's the pro what's the process of like choosing the song or is that is that kind of just you being like pitched plus what you want to do plus what other people are you just it's kind of a grab bag exactly yeah it's it's i've learned that No matter how good of an idea I think it is, the only way an episode is going to happen is if it's something that's getting pitched to me. Really? Really? Yeah. It has to be their idea or else it's probably not going to happen. Yeah. I mean, have you tried to reach out to guests as opposed to sort of responding? Yeah, I reach out to guests all the time. Yeah? They're not all Elton John, but you know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's more often a situation where either we have some sort of relationship, we have a... intermediary like a friend in common or yeah i mean this happened a few times where i just like like something and i'm like damn that was sick i'm gonna dm them and see if they'll come on you know whether it's a book or whatever you know what i mean and more time that often works yeah because they're like oh that's cool let's do it but i would say the pitch thing is more like I would say that's where some of the more surprising ideas come from, whether they work or not is sort of up to the audience, I would say. But like Nathan Lane coming up, I got some blanket PR email about Nathan Lane. I'm like, oh, got to get Nathan Lane on How Long Gone. They're like, oh shit, that's funny. And then he comes on and he's like, who are these fucking idiots? And we're sort of like, this guy's kind of a dick, but it's fun. You know what I mean? It's like good for us. Nathan, remember that one time on The Birdcage? That was awesome. And he's like, who are you people? But the in between, I think that the sweet spot is like someone we know, you know, like socially that also has something going on that people like and their team also knows what they're getting into. Like there's a world where that, or it's somebody that we actually talk to every day and the audience is like, this is funny because it feels like there's no one selling anything. It's just like a bunch of people talking.

you know yeah that that's also a big part but do you feel like your show could be considered like a little bit of a minefield for some of the artists where they're like i don't know if i want to take a look under the hood because i have so much you know post-production to it because like when i was thinking about chris like we have a lot of friends who are famous celebrities doing whatever they do they listen to the pod and if we're like hey you know blah blah blah come on the pod claro's gonna be like i'm i'm not going on your show dog like I got nothing to lose, everything to gain. So like your show, it's more so, you know, you're in service of this artist and it's going to be a bit of a glaze off. So it's not like I don't want to go on there and get a gotcha moment, you know? Yeah, I mean, the show's only made of... the stuff they say. Yeah, yeah. It's their funeral. Yeah. It's like, you made your bed, bro, so I'm only going to read it back to you. But I do tell them, you know, I'm like, at the end of this, if you say, if you feel like you said something that you don't want me to include, just tell me and I won't. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I mean, has it ever happened with like, we're going to listen to the Dua Lipa vocal stems unaffected by effects and they're going to be like, maybe we don't need to hear the 100% raw file. Um, no, I mean, I think, well, two things. One, they control what they send me. I was about to say, they ain't sending you the raw. You ain't never heard a raw file. You've heard 1am radio raw files. That's about it. They ain't sending you. We sent you, we sent you vocal file dot web and that's it. Not 78 versions of it. But usually, um, Usually even if I get something that is really raw, it's, I mean, you know, like sometimes I get like the voice memo, you know, it's like the first thing they made and it's really, it's, it has absolutely rough around the edges. Um, but it's cool. I think that everybody is okay with it because they know that in the end that they've got it.

they've got a song that came out of it, like a real finished thing. So you can talk about all the weird stuff and the missteps that got you there because you know that ultimately the story that's being told is a success story. Yeah, that's true. Like however we got here, it clearly worked is kind of the vibe. Yeah, I mean like once you have the reveal, you take off your glasses and you put down your hair and you're super hot. It's fine to show the pictures of what you looked like when you were 12. Oh, I was like actually so nerdy. Yeah, I mean. I think there's also some, I mean, I think when people can really sing or really write songs, it's like the voice memo is crazy. Yeah. Because you're sort of like, wow, I can hear it. This is exactly, I totally see it. Like, I totally, totally get it. I'm not, that's not everyone, of course, but it's pretty powerful, I think, when it works that way. Indeed it is, Chris. What can I say? Okay, well, we're ending up, we're closing down, we're landing the plane. I want to know about what kind of pods you listen to. The Potter's Pods. I listen to a lot of Off Menu. Do you listen to that show? I have listened to it before. Can you explain it for our listeners? It is a food, in theory, food podcast hosted by the British comedians James Acaster and Ed Gamble. and they have a guest on, and they ask them to tell them about their dream. You know, it's a magic restaurant. You can have whatever food you want. Tell us about your dream entree and appetizer, side dish, dessert, drink. And I love a format, you know? Yeah, you're the opposite of a, I hate a, I'm allergic to a format, but I, that's actually a pretty. that that's pretty open-ended though that's like a i know that's technically a format but you can go a lot of places with that i feel yes exactly yeah yeah and i would say you guys have a format too what's our format it's the two of you two two people is not a format two guys it's the two of you he's kind of basically it's a It's a vice, and you put the guest in between, and then you just slowly squeeze. Okay, how pressurized do your temples feel at the moment as we're approaching one hour? You know, it's actually a gentle kind of pressure. It's a temple grandin kind of, I don't know.

Yeah. It's more of a boiling frog. We'll call it. Right. Exactly. A classic boiling frog. All right. That's off menus. I mean, I've heard of it before. I know it's pretty popular. I've listened to that. And it's an example of how the British are heads and shoulders above the rest of America in terms of like quick witty banter. And just they're just a nonstop fire hose of just filling. dead space with perfect words yeah i'm not i'm not saying that those guys are so good but like that format you chuck it on it doesn't matter who the guest is as long as you like the food it doesn't matter if the guest food sucks as long as you like the guests and then it's very listenable yeah print money yeah okay okay that's a good one yeah but you also listen to how long gone Well, you all are just too prolific for me to keep up with everything. That's a very nice way to put it. It sounds like you need to be walking the reservoir a little bit more. Come on, man. It's not that hard. Come on. What do you mean? You don't commute anywhere? You ain't got no time to kill, bro? What do you mean? Also, just the relaxing moment of not listening to something after either working on music or working on podcast stuff. And just my ears are like, oh. Have some peace. Have some peace in those ear canals. Take the cans off. Take the cans off, he said. All right, well, that's great. Okay. Come home, cans off, bra off, hair in a pony. Get it done. I get it. I put on my OVO sweat, so I got my legs crossed. I'm watching Netflix. Take my headphones off. Oh, finally, there's a new episode of Love is Blind Poland. Babe, come here. I think we're going to order in tonight. Okay, well. Thanks for taking the time to pod with us. Your new album is available now, streaming. It is not created with AI, and you can listen to it with your AI chatbot if you want. You're okay with that? Oh, I encourage it, in fact. Stream is a stream. I don't give a fuck. He's like, they're vinyl too, bro. We got vinyl too, whatever it takes. He's going to be doing some live show performances with some other guests in conversation, a little music, a little talk, a little that, with some cool names, Manzoukas and some other people all over the country. Check out the ID.

for those dates. That's it, bro. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, guys. Thank you. It was really good to have you. We love talking to a pro, and we are fans, so it's nice to break bread. That really means so much. I was so, so intimidated to do this. Please, bro. You know what? One thing about us, we can be assholes, but we respect professionals. That is one thing. I will say across the board, that is one thing that we can be pretty consistent about, especially when it comes to this medium. There are not that many people who have been doing it as long as you have. Really. You know what I mean? It's just us. At the top, it's just us. Now that Marin's gone. Now that R.I.P. Marin. R.I.P. Marin. How many cats do you think he has now? We don't have time for that. A lot. A lot. All right. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you soon, bro. Okay. Sounds great. Thanks, guys. Thanks, man. What if this goes on and on and on What if this goes on and on and on The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. At Blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five-star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals. Free samples. Zero pressure. Right now, get up to 45% off with minimum purchase. Plus, get a free professional measure at Blinds.com. restrictions apply.