935. - Jago Rackham

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Buongiorno. That's How Long Gone. Jason, I am... I'm in Milan. It was a beautiful day today. I really got my steps in, as they say. What's up with you? Ciao, Chris. Ciao, Chris. How many steps did you take in Italian, please? Not in the traditional imperial measurement system. I need kilometers or meters, please. I apologize. I can't do that. You can change the setting in your health app. Just let you know. Oh, shit. Okay. Well, I'll do that later. Yesterday, I did touch 20, which is pretty extreme. I feel like I didn't feel great. 20,000 steps. Yeah, I didn't feel great. We've had... I feel like... I mean, it's not like a broken record, but the question of footwear does come to mind. I know you travel internationally and you walk a lot. Is this another day spent with sockless penny loafers chewing up those cracker-ass heels of yours? My heels look good, bro. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. Sorry, sorry, sorry. For our listeners at home, Chris's heels are on fleek. You know I get pedicures. You know I get pedicures. Don't put me on blasty like that. Shea butter zown. Coconut oil on the face. On the dick and on the heels. Everywhere. Baby feet, baby face, baby dick. You were saying something? I can't. I don't even know. Yeah, I was wearing... Okay, 20,000 steps because you had to look at all the men's wear because you're there for... No, this is not clothing related at all. This is Salone, baby. This is looking at furniture and gay guys. It's totally different.

No clothes at all. Okay, this has nothing to do with fashion week, guys. This is gay guy stuff, okay? Michael Scanlon described it as looking at corners that hot gay guys designed, and he's exactly right. I went to look at- In corners. Yesterday, I went to one of the most beautiful apartments I've ever been in to celebrate Michael Bargo collaborating with Eve Solomon on some fucking- This guy made fur like mink. tablecloths and rugs it's amazing but that's what i'm that's what i'm dealing with here is what i'm saying we're looking at mink tablecloths so it's a bunch of unemployed people looking at interiors and then you have a dinner no no that's the thing no it's a bunch of rich people that seem unemployed but they're all gay and hot. That's the confusing- No, no, no. I was talking about you. I was talking about you. Oh, oh, no. I think most people are employed in the interiors industry, which is relatively booming. Me, yes, yes. There are other people like me as well. Yeah, there are other people like me. Right, right. No, but I mean, you're a part of the media, the glitterati. yeah right yeah totally come on chris you're a little glittery i mean you're not the most but you're you're shining no but it was a it was a fun i mean it's great there's just too many people here it's fucking crazy it's like you know how it's like anything else in these cities something starts really going and then every brand wants to get involved and then it's like wait We don't have the infrastructure for this, really. And you know how Italian people are. They're stressed out. I mean, we're coming off the heels of Adam Scott Coachella. I know all about a small town not being able to handle the infrastructure and influx of hundreds of thousands of people descending down to look at these queer little corners and these mink coasters. It's not. It doesn't. Literally, it's honestly kind of crap. I mean, it's okay if you get around by bike. This kind of thing where you look at something on a map and it's like 35 minutes.

by foot 40 minutes by car 10 minutes by bike like that's literally the vibe you know what i mean so it's like okay so manhattan you must feel just yeah it is home well i'm fine because i'm able to line but alex uh cannot ride a bike um so it's and and it would be an it would probably be it probably wouldn't be the best idea no matter what so i'm sort of like if i'm with her i gotta walk i gotta hoof it or i gotta fucking sit in an uber and argue with some guy because he's clearly taking me the wrong way you know what i mean to get a little extra money out of me out of this little tourist ass he loves when salone comes yeah all these little these little twunks coming through they don't know they're east from their west literally so anyway but yeah it's been it's been good honestly it's been the weather's been so nice that it made it makes a big difference all right 2026 i'm gonna hire your uh your guys's celebrity hypnotist and we're gonna hypnotize alex into becoming a expert cyclist i think she would i think she would learn in the right setting you know what i mean over her feet what is the right setting not not a major airmez activation no not i'm saying not a major metropolitan area where other people are i think maybe like an empty parking lot on a sunday dirt road in the south you know what i mean really like the way yeah the way that your dad taught you to drive a stick type shit the way where you learned how to ride a harley davidson right by my house in glendale exactly when i when i when i what do they call it when you when you uh layer down i laid it down no i didn't no i didn't layer down i didn't layer it i wish i would have laid her down because it's fun to say i wish i wish i did but i mean it'd be cool because also since you have such good like core strength and you you're like hip glute activation is so Dope. Even if you laid a Harley down, you could probably pick it up. It's not even a big deal. No, I wouldn't even notice. It would keep on going. Besides the rug rash, I would just keep on going. No problem for me. That'll buff out. I noticed a little bit on social media.

coming off a couple days off the the 420 hangover but i feel like you know how we've been talking about like people don't care about holidays anymore like easter comes and goes and people like what the fuck like i don't give a shit the the the fake holidays that we create like a like a 420 to celebrate something People are even kind of all set on celebrating that, it seems, right? I didn't see anything. 420 was quiet. It was quiet this year. And I follow Wiz Khalifa, and it was still quiet. You follow the loudest account on social media, and it's still quiet. I follow the pack. I follow the human pack, and I still, yeah, it does feel quiet. It does feel quiet this year. Speaking of the pack or the packet, there's a lot of memes and discoursing. Yes, yes. Quote, unquote, ain't nobody said none about 420 this year. y'all must be on powder powder yeah and and i i believe well i believe in this powders are trending right powder well powder encompasses so many things that's the thing weed is strictly we you know weed to me in the 420 cents means packing a bowl and smoking it you know what i mean obviously edibles are included except thc beverages etc but we don't really whereas powder we're talking cocaine meth ketamine I mean, crushed up pills. It's not a communal activity. We don't go to the park and all, you know, grab lunch and a 12-pack and pull out the fucking spoon unless we're on the Drake Iceman frozen exhibition. Iceman coming soon. Iceman coming soon. But yeah, it's true. That is true. It does feel a little more. It feels less easy to celebrate together, I guess. You know what I mean? Once you light that spoon up, you're not necessarily pulling out the frisbee with the gang. You ain't circling up the home. me is to pass the needle around after you fucking, after you load it up. I'm going to smoke some fentanyl on a bus and then I taught my dog a new trick. Yeah, there's no hula hooping over there when that's going down. That doesn't really work that way. You do one hula hoop and then you kind of stop. It's a hula hoop fentanyl. Wow, that's actually my thesis at art school. You got to take a break. I take photos of people on a fentanyl and I paint hula hoops on them. That's not a bad idea. Sort of like restructuring. That's not a bad idea.

idea give them something to do what is it what do you saw also that the the uk has now banned anyone born did you see this like you can't basically you can't buy cigarettes or vapes legally ever if you were born after 2008 or something or 2009. Kind of crazy. It's very crazy. I mean, it's obviously not a big deal because I'm in Italy where you can buy cigarettes as a baby, so the news has it hit here super hard. Mama. But that is an insane thing to do. That is actually an insane thing to do. I mean, I think it's smart because there's truly no other way to do it. than to do this right you have to it reminds me of like um you know like one of david chose nasa movies where like if you want us to like survive we're gonna have to like cut off this like wing that we're like yeah there's two people in there and they were like too crazy and they didn't do the oxygen thing and now we got to cut them off like like bye y'all like everyone like we're on the ship we're all gonna die from lung cancer and you can't but there's no way like People love to vape and smoke so much, especially young people. They're just going to 3D print their own fucking shit. If you're in the UK and you want to smoke a cigarette, you can go into your nan's cabinet and get a Winston. Or it's going to be old school where you stand outside of the Tesco and give somebody a 10. They spend five on a pack and they keep five. It's going to be old school. Are you my dad? And now it's going to be like... Can you buy me a case of Turkish gold, please? It's not quite the same. It's like when Tim, anybody goes to Japan, Tim makes them bring back a case of his cigarettes, the Paws cigarettes, which are beautiful. But he's really rich in those now. Because if you ask, people are like, sure. It's the same thing. It's the same thing if you stand outside the tobacco store. But I mean, once we prohibit... you know, vaping and cigarettes, it's just going to create, you know, 11,000 black markets and, you know, the cartels will win again. I mean, that's what I, I look at this as a cartel play. I think there's, I think they're somehow involved in this. Patrick Radden Keefe already has his outline written for this story that will.

happened in seven years. Do you remember in 2026 when they banned cigarettes? But it is a crazy precedent to set, but I think you make a good point. It's like, well, you're either going to die or have to amputate your leg. Which one do you want to do? You know what I mean? So you got to take the leg off if you want to live. They know that there's no way to control it other than full abolition of it. And you got to, I mean, it's kind of smart because at a certain point, I guess. You got to make a decision or not. Well, the question is, is it going to affect pint sales? You know what I mean? Because if you can't have a fag in a pint, what's the point? You know what I mean? What's the point of life? What's the point of this job? What's the whole thing? It could get darker. That's a nice little segue into our guest today who has put down the pint of Guinness and picked up the pint of Van Leeuwen. I think he mentioned, was it that or something else? Bringing the pints out means ice cream now more so than... The Boddingtons with the lads. But yeah, we have a guest today. He's a friend of mine from Instagram that we started chatting a few years ago. And we've never really met or spoken. But he has a book, To Entertain, Instructions for a Dinner Party. And so far, it's a great book. It's the kind of book that I would write. If I were to write a cookbook, it's a lot of his personality and cool little stories and philosophies. The personality is actually what turned me off. I was just there for the recipes. It was all the stories that kind of got me. You love his simple storytelling with his recipes, right? I've had Jaggo's food, actually, and I love it. It's delicious. He cooked it at Izzy's house one night. I've actually sampled the food. It was delicious. And he seemed a little messy, but we'll talk about his station. That makes it hotter. Yeah, he's the type of chef where you want him to have a large... heavy towel not a small kitchen towel and it's sort of wet with the the fats of geese and pheasant and liver and lamb you know what i mean he's killing he's killing birds we ain't heard of yet all right let's uh let's give him a call let's give him a call this episode of how long gone is brought to you by squarespace obviously jason you and i spend a lot of time on the world wide web sort of our peers our listeners our friends our colleagues maybe even your parents if they're freaky um and if you're doing anything in the world

writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept quote unquote donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions, but how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince.

Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. What happened to your nose? It's a little nose strip that I use. I have a deviated septum. He's got a deviated septum. This is the shit chicks say to get a nose job on the low. I think Jason's going to come back one day and the schnoz is going to be just a little bit smaller. I'm one of the more nasally people on planet Earth right now. I need this more than most people. This is you demasaled. I do need to get the surgery. but i've had like sinus and nasal issues my whole entire life but it basically helps me breathe as if a normal person yeah would would be breathing instead of somebody who's handicapped like me i'm sorry that you're like that did you say i'm sorry that you're like that i gotta be honest with you you look like you might snore i snored

Fucking so much. Luana, my partner, wears earplugs. No, I'm terrible. I'm like a pig. You're saying so she's strapped up with special earplugs wherever you go because she knows daddy's going to be sawing logs. Yeah. And are you oinking a little bit too with the snore? Is it a pig-like snore? I don't know. It's more like maybe like how you would imagine like a wild whore. I don't know because I don't hear it. She did once record it for me and that was horrible. Okay, sure. You're snoring like a stuck boar. Alcoholics, classically, someone in your life will film you at your worst and show you the video later. I think it's time to do that with snoring. I think it's time to do that with snoring for you. Just to know what you're working with. How bad is it? Do I need a CPAC machine? How bad is it? It's bad. I've done it. I'm just choosing not to remember because I think it would be... too harrowing for me to dwell on i wouldn't be able to go to sleep yeah that's why i disassociate too yeah do you have um acid reflux i know that you are you you don't drink anymore right no but you still eat a lot of pheasant so you must have some you know acidity yeah i have how did this is this is true i have acid reflux as well i've got a a little thing of rennie's which are like i guess like tom's i don't know what you have okay sure yeah a little chalky tablets next to the bed yeah hey nothing wrong with that it affects i like that that's your that's your blue chew you got the rinnies next to the all right what what are the rinnies are they pink the way are they multi-color the way tums can be are they just no blues are five the pinks are we we are uh we're a less joyous place so they're like one color if they're mint they're white but i actually have orange ones because it's like having a little orange candy in the night like having a fanter Yeah, that's nice. You guys love Fanta. George was telling us that Fanta in the UK is just different, and I don't really understand what he means by that. Well, it's worse now. Like a Mexican Coke. It used to. I mean, because we have a sugar tax here, so all our fizzy drinks, soda pops, whatever you call them. Okay, relax, bro. It's not the 1950s. We call them Coca-Cola like men is what we call them. No matter what the drink is, it's a Coke. What it is. No matter what it is.

Yeah, it's just Coca-Cola. It could be Pepsi. It could be Mountain Dew. It could be Dr. Pepper. It's Coke. Yeah. Okay, your Coca-Colas have more sugar in them. In our country, they banned putting sugar in drinks, and so everyone took them out, and they taste weird, apart from an original Coke, which has the original. recipe but it's more expensive than any of the others oh really so that so that you the good shit costs more it's a tax it's a sugar tax we're willing to pay but i mean it's better to have sugar though than i mean that we need a high fructose corn syrup tax more than we need a sugar tax but that's a whole other podcast that's a geopolitical one right there and this is like it's super geopolitical with it you know that as it pertains to my food ways yeah my southern food ways i gotta make sure they're clear I've had you described by two different people as a southern gentleman. Wow, that's nice, actually. Two different English people. Oh, they're English, that's why. Well, are you not a southern gentleman? Look, I would love to think that, and so would my mother, but I think other people would maybe use some different descriptors for me. No, you would, especially by 2026. terms and standards you are definitely a southern gentleman you will hold a door open for a guy no matter how hot he is it doesn't matter that's right i don't care look i'm an equal opportunity door holder and i do dole out the yes sir and yes ma'am to the point where people have are like kind of weirded out by it it's hard to it's when it's baked it's just like hard to shake that you know what i mean it's like the whole life do you call your father your daddy No, no, no. I only call my boyfriend that. No, no. My dad... He calls him Pa. No, I don't call him Pa. Pa. No, I call him Dad. Straight up Mom and Dad. I mean, don't get me wrong. In my family, there's some wild shit. There's a Meemaw and a Peepaw and all that shit, but in the Black House, we keep it pretty down the middle. Yeah, I mean, I can't even imagine what you call him. Daddy or Father? Which one is it? Yeah, what do you call your dad? I call my... father my father well yeah i i don't know i always refer to him in like a third person to his i don't know i don't think i've called him dad for like a long long time but do you say do you say my father or do you just say father i i guess i kind of just like start talking to him i don't know i i guess

Father's meant to ring round seven. Something like that. We have a great relationship. I just talked to him. It's no big deal, actually. I don't have to address him. I don't even have a father. It's all good, guys. It's all good. I'm feeling out in the dark. I'm exploring the world. A deviated septum. No dad. Don't feel bad for him. If he was 5'8 and had a loving dad, he'd be worse off. No dad. Deviated septum. Big dig. Big bank account. No X. He's even got a Mercedes Benz. He's even got a Mercedes Benz. I don't want to call. Yeah, I got a Benz and a Porsche in the parking lot. Deviated septum. hair on fleek nails on fleek it looks like you're checking notes about how many cars you have on the video you keep looking he does he keeps he keeps his affirmation his affirmation journal in front of him oh god i washed my beautiful car today uh that's okay so you what do you call your mom mom or mother i call my mother my mommy to her when i address her i call her mommy i feel like i know it's like an english posh thing i guess it isn't no for sure and then when i refer to her in the third person i call her my mother yeah i i think i think british mother father feels very appropriate whereas for some other people it doesn't feel quite as appropriate it's weird i mean i try not to refer to her as much is possible i mean sure do they do they think do they think you're a freak are they on board with this whole thing i think they're pretty proud of me actually it's nice they're very supportive I'm doing okay. I got a book. I think they should be. Do you think I'm a freak? Look, I love you. I'm saying that sometimes parents have a vision for their child, and when they don't do what they expected, no matter how successful they are, it's a little bit of a, oh, that's nice. I could have become a lawyer, I guess, and maybe they'd be happier with that. They would like it maybe more if your book did not have the word cook in front of it. That's funny.

It was just like a proper novel. Yeah, a novel for the ages. I think I care about that. I think I'm self-conscious that my book has the word cook in front of it. Well, the thing with that is, though, everyone tells me the only books that sell are fucking cookbooks. So it sounds like you're the next Alison Roman. You get your shit together. I wouldn't call this a cookbook, though. I wouldn't call this a cookbook. I would say it is... It is Diago's Guide to Life with some lamb recipes. But I'm saying to you that classifying it as a cookbook is a recipe for success, no pun intended, chart sales-wise. That's what I'm saying. New name for our food podcast, Chris. I'm saying that the only people I know that have made money that aren't famous writers are cookbook authors, like off of published books is what I'm trying to say. It's very true. i think i i was listening i was thinking about you know there's this thing where they talk about your president and how in the 80s he was always upset that like new york kite society didn't take him seriously i feel like that at the moment i'm like i keep like being in vogue and like the ladies papers and stuff and i'm like i want to be in the proper grown-up newspaper Like I want more book reviews. All right, so you're saying Vogue is the ladies' newspaper and World of Interiors is the gay newspaper. So you're trying to finally get... You have to crawl before you can walk. We're going to need a few El Italia stories about your butter sculptures before we get into how you are a true genius of our time. What are you looking for? Let's just talk. If you could look at the camera and talk directly at your publicist, what would you say to them right now? Well, what do I want? Yeah, what do you want? York Times, Financial Times, the Telegraph. What are we talking about? What's on your mood board? What's on my mood board? Have you read The Secret? No, tell me about it. It's just where you visualize your success. Oh, yeah, right. Tape a copy of the Financial Times to your ceiling every morning and you'll get rich kind of thing. I think it's also a thing about being English is that when you asked me to say what I wanted, I panicked and I couldn't think of anything because we don't do that.

i remember the first time i was like with americans who were like trying to do stuff in the creative industry whatever and they were like i'm doing this like i've got this company and it would be just like an instagram page with 100 followers but people like what do you do i'm like oh no i guess i'd like write or something because we're modest sure yeah low expectations high delivery i just write you know it's i don't know it's like something like new york times bestseller list or whatever i don't know i don't keep up with that stuff i was best selling in um in etiquette books on amazon at one for one brief moment etiquette books on amazon uk or yeah etiquette books i mean it has it does have etiquette i don't have a publisher so yeah UK wait your voice just changed now whoa now you sound normal okay oh it better yeah is that good this is yeah this is this is 10 times better oh okay well let's keep it like that then I think they were dying. That's why it was weird. I did plug them in before. I was trying to be a professional. This happens sometimes when the camera battery is getting low, the flash ain't firing, right? It's a problem. We don't want you to do your best. We want you to do our best, okay? So next time you come on, figure it out. You're a sweetheart. Why do you think British people can't celebrate their success? Because this is a real thing, and you're having a nice moment right now. and you're not able to you're not able to pat yourself on the on the back and celebrate a little generational trauma margaret thatcher what do we got yeah i think we're like kind of like sort of perversely obsessed with failure and terrified of it and so if you stop celebrating your success you get worried that like it's not gonna last and then everyone's gonna laugh at you maybe i'm scared like my pants are gonna fall down of course you don't you don't want to tempt fate if you find the rare moment of success you don't want to jinx it and have karma yeah i was you in the butt i was in a in a meeting with a with a new potential agent today and i was having to do like a proper hard sell and i'm like oh i did this i did this and

And afterwards, I felt retching. It was disgusting, boasting that much. I don't know if it's boasting if you were asked to tell the person who's going to try to make money, but I see where your head's at. In that case, I think you're wrong, but I know what you mean. You had to do your agent's job, but you only have to do it the one time. You have to convince them, and they can do it for you on your behalf for years to come, hopefully. Exactly, and I'm so excited about that. The thing that I'm most excited about, is having someone to be able to do the fucking like being a mercenary and like being like, you need to give me money to make you a fucking cake. Yes, having a third party for, you know, not even negotiations, but just for those little, you know, hey, just I need the money to buy the food to cook. For your wedding, you don't want to do this. I'm running super low on flour. If you could kind of bank transfer me, that would be great. My radish knife is in the shop. I have to go beg the miller to give me some extra flour. It would be nice if I have someone else do that for me. You got a couple kilos on loan. Are you having a night Red Bull? Diet. To be clear, it's a diet Red Bull, sugar-free. It's not diet caffeine. It would be cool if you learned that the thing that keeps you energized from Red Bull is not the sugar, but in fact the caffeine and taurine. But you're a night owl because having read your book, Chris and I live in America. We're in our 40s. I live in LA where people, you know, eat supper at 4.45 PM and are in their pajamas and their red light mask before the sun goes down. And you're saying, you know, if it's on a Sunday, they'll probably leave around midnight. So you want to make sure the dinner doesn't go down, you know, anytime after 9.30 or something like that. So is London and the UK still living on that late time frame or are you just that young of a person to where?

you're still having these marathon meals and staying out all night. I was younger when I was beginning to write it and now I'm like going to be at nine because I'm really busy and like I just like I have my salad dinner. Like it's like, you know, it's like you have the persona that you have on the internet where you're like, oh, I fucking cook pigs and like. as you said, like pheasants and birds that we haven't even discovered, which I do sometimes, obviously, but most of the time I'm eating like brown rice and steamed vegetables and grilled. Well, I mean, I think this is an evolution that comes to all of our chefs, you know, 20, 30 years of Bourdain living. You know, by the end of his life, he was, you know, he's in his 50s. He put the knife down. He's, you know, he's making paschetti with butter for his kid. But you've already done all of that, and I think young people nowadays have already lived all of their adult life. They pre-age. Yeah, you're settling into the second and third act of your life at 28. Do you think it's sad? Yeah. I think it's sad, but you're sober, so there's nothing left for you anyway. So it's fine. Well, that's what I thought before I got sober. And then Chris, you're also sober, aren't you? Yeah, yeah. Almost 10 years. It's a secret. Yeah, it's a big secret. Yeah, my life is... It only comes up every half an hour on this show. Yeah, it's gotten considerably more boring. But I'm saying, like, once... Yeah, like, what are you going to do after 9 o'clock? You know what I'm saying? Well, this is what I feel. I mean, like, watch more TV. I don't even own a TV. It's like really... So you're going to chug a bunch of Red Bull and read a book? I have to go to a play tonight. I'm sorry to hear that. I know. But, you know, it will be great. But the Red Bull, I'm just tired. I'm sick. and i'm having to do too much work okay so when you're saying you're having to do too much work let's walk us through a day in the life king because i i just oh my god because i don't i don't well i mean i know you guys go to the farmer's market or whatever but what the else do you do well he's on a media tour right now so it's exhausting they pay you for the press not for the book you know i don't i think he's i think it's a combo of both and i want to see what it's looking like because i just i feel like you're gonna have a freaky little schedule for us so okay let's

Let's do yesterday. Great. But then when I say it, it doesn't actually even sound like very much. And then I'm like, oh, I'm really lazy. Bro, I was complaining about, I'm in Milan and I'm tired from walking around today looking at- Chris is exhausted from checking out bathrooms. You're like trying to finish an essay about octopus. Yeah. exactly which i don't eat because it's too clever and i'm trying to i'm trying to edit out the racist jokes on this show we all have jobs to do guys we all everybody's got a cross to bear all right so you're saying all right look yesterday in the in your life what are we looking at yesterday i did a podcast in the morning i answered some emails damn this is you you're living my exact life i made a chicken soup with um a really nice with like um a peanut kind of base it was delicious actually hold on you put peanut base what the hell are you talking about i just put some peanut in there as well as um the fucking that what's the thai spice where it's like massaman hold on you put it is it peanut butter or do you just throw loose peanuts into chicken broth what do you think i i honestly don't know do you crush them up at this point with you honey i don't know Yeah, peanut butter. I used, like, the smooth peanut butter. I used it. I was like when you took off one of your Demila Muster boots and fucking smashed the peanuts on the fucking, you know, sprinkled them in a little bit. I had to dig them from the ground. Okay, you were thinking, like, a Thai, satay, Southeast Asian kind of thing going on. You weren't just, like, blackout and just, like, maybe I put peanut butter in the soup. You were like a fucking insane person. You know, like... it's a massaman curry it's like a kind of it was like a bastardized version of the massaman curry like a peanut soup i made that i had there was something stressful but it's not in my diary so i can't remember what it was then i had to cycle across london to clapham which took a while not clapham yeah exactly oh yeah because it got famous recently for having all those it's funny because it's like one of the fanciest parts of london but

okay apparently overrun but with gangs if you can't clap them join them as they say that's what i always say okay you rode the bike to was it uh was it your own bicycle vintage and rustic or was it an electric lime the latter okay i'm a man of my times people think i'm like some kind of People are always like, oh, you're dressing. I always wear a fucking t-shirt. Everyone is mean and like. No, bro, you're giving a guy who cooks by candlelight and you know it. Don't even say that. You create a visual aesthetic. I know you guys have electricity because you're podcasting right now, but otherwise I wouldn't be sure. I had to actually borrow a generator. All right. So you biked all the way to Clapham. What was in Clapham? I had to take a phone call. but it was just before i was meeting a chef at a place where a really great restaurant called crispin i said a museum called studio voltaire next week i'm cooking a big dinner from my book there i was doing a site visit i had to have a phone call with my friend zoe in new york first of all had the site visit then i went to the library i met my friend isaac Then I had to cycle. I went to a birthday party for this restaurant at Clipston. And then I went home. But when I tell you that, it sounds like a... No, that's a long day. It sounds like a day off. No, that's a long day. It sounds like a beautiful summer day of a student. I went back to the park, hung out with Lucy. I talked to Zoe for a while on the phone. She's doing okay. Yeah. Bro, your life is a Bell and Sebastian song. Dead ass. Dead ass Bell and Sebastian. Was Zoe going through it or did you just need to catch up with her? Were you providing counsel? It was about a shoot we're doing for an important French fashion magazine. It wasn't just chatting. So when Zoe calls you for the important French magazine shoot, you're bringing to the table some food. Yeah. In this case. I bring food to the table. I bring food. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't. What do you do for a living? I bring food to the table. No, I will. Actually, no, for this one, I'm being profiled by the magazine, so I'm being photographed. I will do something. It's about me. As it should be. As it should be. So, all right. So, okay. No, that's a pretty full day. I mean, that doesn't, to be fair, I mean, you're not working in the mines, but that doesn't.

necessarily sound any different than jason eyes days you know depending on what we're looking at it's what success looks like now like basically it's like going and like meeting someone and having lunch somewhere and then going somewhere else and having coffee or juice. This is what happens though. I'm in Milan and I'm feeling unmoored. If you're out all day, I start to feel crazy because I haven't had laptop time. I feel like I need two hours in front of the computer to feel grounded. Just to feel like I know what's going on. My two front teeth are sticking out. I'm sucking my thumb so much. He needs his Twitter baba or else he gets angry. The social media stuff, I'm happy to do on my phone. I literally feel like I can look at an email on my phone and it doesn't register. same way as it does on my computer i can't do email on my phone yeah i mean i do obviously in a pinch but like on a if i'm really it's it's it's undignified to type an email with your you know with your little thumbs and yeah with your thumbs wouldn't it be better if the if the english government decided if you're born after 2009 you have to email on the medium screen you can't be the small screen or the big screen what do you think that's a nice idea i think that's a great idea i also don't know what the big screen is There's your television, your computer, and your phone. People email on the TVs? No, not really. But it's more of a reference to people will say, like, I leave my job on the medium screen. I can't wait to leave my medium screen and go to my big screen. I'm sorry. I thought it was the thing I'd miss. You don't have a TV, though, because you're such an anarchist or because you don't watch Love Island? No, actually, you know my cousin was on Love Island. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need.

TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code how long taskers book up faster especially for same day tasks so book trusted home help today that is 15 off your first task using promo code how long with the task rabbit app or at taskrabbit.com every time i go to the doctor i walk out of that bitch feeling dumb I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, you're fine. Drink more water. He knows how to charge my copay. Exactly. That's about it. As if I could drink more water, doctor. I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and make it better. But Superpower is doing something different. Superpower sends a licensed professional to your home. or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. Superpower is more comprehensive and advanced system.

out there make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with superpower for a limited time how long on listeners get twenty dollars off to unlock their new health intelligence head over to superpower.com and use the code how long for twenty dollars off your membership that is code how long and after you sign up they'll ask how you heard about superpower do us a favor if you could and tell them how long gone sent you and that'll just support us thanks this episode of how long gone is brought to you by our best friends at better help Jason, we're deep into May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month. And this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is... No one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference. I agree, Chris. And sometimes it's nice to be talking to somebody, even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them. Because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself. And that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over 6 million people globally are using it. And, you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh. You know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself. Maybe a non-alcoholic. kombucha and just think and be like damn i really am him you don't have to be on this journey alone find support and have somebody with you in therapy sign up and get 10 off at betterhelp.com slash how long that is better h e l p.com slash how long on love island australia And she had the first ever same-sex kiss on Love Island. We're very proud of it. Throw that on the wiki. So you're saying your cousin's a lesbian and she got tongue down on TV in Australia. I think she, at that point, was saying that she was bisexual. You don't have to be a lesbian to kiss somebody on Love Island, Chris. I've never watched that program, shockingly. But that's big. I know that was big for your family. They got you and they got her. I mean, we're taking over. Yeah, it's a whole thing. We're like...

Rackham's in charge now, bitch. That's what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. No, no. What did she go on? What did she do after with her post Love Island success? What did she turn that into? She, um... Finished her master's. She, you know, she is a businesswoman. Sure, sure. Do you mind explaining which business that is? Like an Andrew Tate kind of way. Got it. She was making money. She was in the entertainment business. The entertainment business. I understand. Down in Australia, too, I feel like you can get away with a lot down there. I feel like it's a fun place to be an expat. As long as you're white. Pretty smooth sailing down there. You're good to go. And I know she's white. It is. It is. She's half Chinese. Oh, shit. Damn. All right. I'm sorry. I apologize. I apologize. I apologize. I apologize for your cousin's race. Yeah, you should be sorry. I get a payback card. Yeah, payback's going to be a bitch. I'm sorry. That was an English joke. That was an English joke because you guys are so white. You know what I mean? We are very white. Physically. we like look at me you can you can't the only reason you know that it's not my t-shirt my skin is because it's got a it's not good it's like tan it's pink it's like a pig like a pig wearing a shirt yeah now what happens if you guys go on holiday what if you go to spain with the family you coming back tomato mode or do you do you get a nice dark i wear factor 50. i sit in the shade no i love being hot but i i burn if i'm not very careful What about you, Chris, in the south? Are you tanned? Yes. Bro, I tanned like a chick in the 80s in a bed that she paid for in a fucking strip mall. I don't burn, really, unless I'm sitting on the equator. For a cracker-ass cracker, he does tan well, I will say. Yeah, I don't get super red. Okay, I'm sorry, Chris. I don't know your sauce. I'm sorry. No, hey, look, it's totally fine. and i i won't if we clear look i'll call it even because i said the thing about your cousin you said the thing about me i think we're i think we're zeroed out now you know it's like i can't remember that there's two of you so whoever's taught made the noise last is the one i like kind of end up like nervously insulting

That's great. You'll get used to it after a while. Don't worry. I'm like, oh, I'm with the big boys. I need to make the jokes. So you've done some other low-level podcasts, I assume. Are those more in the food space? Did you do Ruthie's this morning? Yeah, which pod did you do? You're doing Desert Island Discs? Nothing compared to you. You'd be great on Desert Island Discs. BBC, I know you're listening. Yeah, come on, BBC. You have to be kind of like either a titan of industry. which in the uk means like you own the biggest like i know denture factory or or you are you um i know you've read a book in the 80s i'm not old enough like i do feel like i do feel like when i look at that on my podcast app i would say and i i feel like i'm pretty tapped in i maybe one in four is someone i know no you know maybe what maybe i don't understand the the choices that they make it's weird They will put a senior civil servant on. It will be like, if this person was in charge of checking weights and measures for the last 50 years. Me, definitely, maybe. I'm taking that with me. If they're only booking old people, maybe they're just afraid. of having to list you know having to publish someone's like biba doobie as number three on their on their you know like we wanted this is what i'm thinking about yeah like what if someone do you guys did you guys hear of the crazy frog which was like a thing that we had here like the song the crazy frog yeah i know i don't know what that is you should look it up afterwards but that was that was british culture when i was a teenager it was important and so like maybe people will be choosing that i think the idea is that because that concept could work for anyone they make it work for anyone you know what i mean like it's really it really is so simple you could that it's having to someone's grandmother yeah everybody's got an opinion and they'd be like i love michael buble and that one song from the tchaikovsky opera the like dance of the

Crazy Frog in F minor. I need to look up Crazy Frog because you guys got so much funny little funky shit over there. Chris, you know Crazy Frog. You know the Beverly Hills cop song where it's like... Oh, that's Crazy Frog? It's just a cover of that song, but it's a CGI animated kind of frog character from... I'm looking it up. 2003. It was somebody on Eurodance. Oh, sure, sure. Created this character. And when the song drops, the crazy frog says the words crazy frog. And then, you know, it turns into an anthemic dance song. Oh, that sounds good. It's actually, it is actually okay. But what happened was it became a ringtone. But like an early phone. The gift and the curse. Marketed by the ringtone provider Jamba with an exclamation point. There you go. And it was number one for like. an ungodly amount of time and i remember they would they refused to play on our one radio station because you don't have to go around the radio to listen to the one radio station and they'd be like we're not playing this because they didn't think it was proper music it is not proper music i will agree with them when the people started like when the sex pistols crazy frog you know all these things were they crazy frog was the was the the very first trojan horse like sex the sex pistols but for Slop music, I guess. They're the first slop. Actually, I think it was. It was the Sex Pistols. Slop pistols. You've got to respect innovation. It's like Green Day is like the crazy frog. No. I don't. Yeah. Green Day is too crazy frog. We talk about Green Day a lot on this podcast, so I'm glad that you brought that up. I actually love Green Day. I love early Green Day especially. Well, a lot of people love early Green Day, but I think eventually Billy Joe is going to come on the pod and we're going to be able to grill him like one of your fucking birds. Yeah. Will you spatchcock him first? Yo, chill, bro. Chill. I ain't into all that shit, bro. I mean, we've referred to him as having a lesbian haircut for a couple years now. He's really transitioned. But I think Billy knows that. I think he's leaning in. Own it, girl. I think he's comfortable in his skin.

I think he's so rich that if he wasn't comfortable in his skin, there'd be a problem. Yeah. What does spatchcock mean? I know it's a phrase. It's kind of face down ass up. That I understand. In the oven at 350. It is. It kind of is, to be honest. It's where you... So you're saying it's when the chef is bottoming? Is that what you're saying? No, the chef is... I'll let you explain. Jason, go on. You're the expert. no you're the expert no you both are experts it sounds like little freak but i want to i would rather give you the i would rather give you the floor sir thank you yeah it's where you slice like through the where the rib cage of a bird is and so you open it up so that you have it flat so you can cook a bird flat and quicker okay basically oh that's a that's a very fun term for that yeah yeah it's good yeah you spatch that cock you spatched it bro I get the cock and I spatch it. You didn't go to school for this, right? Are you a self-taught shorty? Yeah. I studied politics. Oh, wow. How's that working out? It was fine. I got very good grades at school. I bet you did, little kiss-ass. You were a little brown-nozer, weren't you? No, I was almost getting expelled all the time. And I got good. I just go to school drunk. Okay, so you were partying, but you could still pull it off. I'm like, no, fuck you. I wasn't a nerd. I got quite good grades while being blackout drunk. Yeah. Well, then when did you discover the knife skills? I always liked cooking. I would cook for my friends when I was a teenager. Luana, my partner, who was also at the dinner when you were at. Yeah. Her mom would play a lot, so when I'd go around there, I'd cook for her. You guys have been together that long? Since we were 13. What? Yeah, it was a long time. it's like medieval you still ain't put you still ain't put a ring on it big bro we've been engaged since we were like 21 and then it's it's this thing where we're like okay we just need a really a close friend to get a big house because i don't want to rent a house but i don't want to you know sure we all we all yeah we all want that book advance was good it wasn't that good yeah yeah i get it but am i gonna go to like butlins you don't know what that is what is that butlins butlins is like a uh it's like a camp where you go like for

for people and their families to go and like i know have fun by the seaside that sounds pretty good to me sounds like a j crew activation to me it's lovely it's lovely i can't i mean if i described it properly i would sound classist and horrible so i'm just gonna i'm leaving it so you're so you're you're fine you guys are fine where you are and she's not putting the heat on she hates me she's like come on yeah that's all good that's all good relationships yeah we're pausing we're pausing that while i will i ruthlessly pursue success and then i have to get back into like trying to understand how to be a loving partner you're like babe i need a couple years to ruthlessly pursue success and then i'll get right back on it i'm sorry it's like absolutely true i mean you gotta but what do you do when you when you're in that mindset but you're the one who goes to the kitchen to make the sandwich we need to have some some balance in this relationship you're supposed to be hustling and grinding she's doing your laundry rubbing your feet making you a sandwich doing the dishes but if you're doing all of it what's she'd up to Painting. Painting. Yeah, painting. Okay, okay. She looks pretty. There you go. It takes a lot of time. It does, it does. You live with a woman, it's a lot of effort. And I kind of look like a mess all the time. She chooses my clothes, which is nice. I was like, I'll choose what we eat, but you have to... shock for me i mean our lives are i mean i joked before that our daily diary entries are quite similar you know do a podcast and have yeah have our missus pick out what we're gonna wear to school today and then i have to make the yummy supper but yeah i feel like you have a good sense of style yourself though is it just something that she's better at or does she just really love it and you let her do it Or are you shit at dressing? No, I mean, well, because I just wear, like, the same thing every day. I just wear, like, a jacket and trousers of the same color and a white t-shirt. But if I want to do anything more interesting, then I'll, like... Also, I guess I... She doesn't choose what I wear every day, but I would never want to buy clothes without her being, like, that's nice. I feel lost. I got this brand, gave me a suit because I did a thing with them.

but i haven't gone and picked it up yet because we haven't made our schedules work so that she can come and hold my hand when i choose the suit like chaperone what brand what brand is this uh it's called drakes yeah we know drakes you're i mean you can't really go wrong there but i feel like you are you sort of are a darling of the fashion world so i feel like maybe this is not the first or last free suit daddy's getting I hope not. Come on, you don't... It's nice to have some clothes. I haven't got any of your clothes. No, it'll be nice to eventually stop getting paid in suits, though. I don't like... Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You have a whole... You're saying you prefer legal tender over garments for payment. Combination of the two is nice, too. Combination. I think a combination because, like, there's only so much you can tax back before it gets, like, suspicious and, like... Like, I don't know, the Drake suit, for instance, like, I don't know, whatever, £2,000. I'm not gonna... I wouldn't... buy a suit for that much so it's kind of fun i agree yeah definitely oh for sure yeah yeah and you deserve it you know you'll look great in it it'll be nice to have thank you your sweetheart and shout out to the good people at drake's we love those guys um i pulled some notes for the book i was reading it this morning in the sauna and i feel like um how do you read a book in the sauna doesn't get damp Well, it's an infrared dry sauna, not a steam. The book does get damp, for sure, just from my sweat and stuff. But the sauna itself is dry. But Chris, not a big food, cooking, cookbook guy. He's a book collector. But I feel like the opening line of your book is very Chris-coated. Quote-unquote, dinners are not about the food. They are about the people at the table. We're almost getting to a post-food dinner world now. No, because people are so perversely obsessed with food as well at the same time. To be real with you, what I've been thinking about recently a lot is the weird way that the interest in food is about two things. On the one hand, it's because it's not technological. It's not being on your phone.

actually at the same time like all about instagram yeah yeah well that's kind of what i was talking about more so you know like is is the modern definition of a of a quote unquote gourmand somebody who's good at uh you know documenting food that other people make on social media you know versus like the traditional whatever 50 years ago being somebody who you know was almost sexually obsessed with food did you watch that film um the taste of things the french film about cooking it was really it's a documentary about you yeah well it was like over sentimental trash but anyway The gourmands in that were like the worst boars ever. They're like, oh, this French cook is like opening a new restaurant. He's like a genius. He's like the Napoleon of the kitchen. And you know what? I always think that like maybe people when they were obsessed with food in the 50s, they were boars in one way and now people are boring in another way, which is like posting pictures. I agree. Counterpoint. Counterpoint. I honestly feel like the heyday of like the plate eats or my phone eats first like Instagram culture is over yeah I feel like I see that a lot less now like I don't I think so you don't see people at restaurants with like a fucking ring light and you would have like five or six years ago yeah I think that was weird because that didn't really happen in the UK in the way I think it was happening in America because of the the like British like embarrassed self-embarrassment but I do think that like now you know like people who are posting pics of their food which i do all the time but it's because it's kind of like linked with how i earn money and most of the time like food posters are just kind of like doing it as part of the hustle yeah i think after covid we moved the ring light inside of our our automobiles and started filming ourselves eating the food in there eating there amazing and also the eating all the stuff that's like weird colors in the car i don't know what you mean by that dude i talk about this all i talk about this all the time man i get i get the only food videos i see on instagram are guys eating insane cookie collaborations in their car yeah and they bring like a jug of milk and pour a glass of milk in the car it's all in the car well because it's embarrassing to do that in public it is embarrassing but it's also embarrassing to do it in your car also and also like

got mice in their cars because they've got crumbs everywhere. I ate so many novelty donuts in my car that the rats attacked it. It's a bad way to go. This is the Ratatouille sequel. We got to get to work on this, guys. That's it. The rat has now become a content creation studio in someone's car. Someone's Audi? No, no, bro. He's got the new Bronco. That guy eats crumble. You want to go there. Stay away from the Tesla. That guy's testing vegetables. Close up shop. All his homies come and eat all the crumbs. So they would have a big gas-guzzling car? Typically, yeah. Not like a small one. Does the big Tesla that you guys have, the truck, does that run on petrol or on electricity? No, it's electric. Don't act like you don't have Teslas. In London, bro. We do have Teslas, but we don't have the big truck one. You don't have the Cybertruck? No, the Arab guys don't drive Teslas. They drive Bentleys and Rolls. He don't know about that. When he's down at Mayfair getting a $100 cup of coffee, he's done rubbing elbows with Cybertruck drivers. And our Waymos have people in them. Which is weird. Like drivers. You're saying the Waymos are still being tested so they have a chaperone driver in there. Yeah. Just in case. Yeah, yeah. So you see them all the time. But it feels a bit like, kind of like, the flintstone car you know like where they're like pet they're like using their feet to make it go along we're not quite in this in the future what is your relationship to america how have you i assume you've been to like new york and la but have you visited other parts um i went to las vegas to fly out when i was 15. i haven't been to new to la as an adult i've been to new york a bunch but not to la that's far i'd like to go someone should bring me out there I'll work on it. Your wish. Maybe our good friends at littlebrown.co.uk will get it in the budget. Do a little LA book tour. I can set it up for you. That .uk part is going to be a hurdle. You know what I'm saying? Just budget-wise. Just trying to unlock some stuff. Move some things around. You know what I mean? You've sold 50 books. You can get it in America, right? No. It's not published.

okay i thought maybe no you know it was like i didn't tell you before we did this because i was worried you'd be like wait it doesn't even no i don't give a shit about that we don't care if this helps sell your book at all luckily luckily we speak english over here too the only difference i mean i like how unapologetically british it is how you know all the timings and measurements are in in centigrade and that's like what the rest of the world does okay okay i'll hang up this i'll fucking close the zoom so fast you start telling me about yeah but if you're you know slow roasted salmon two and a half hours at 140 i'm thinking the thing's gonna come out black how does that short out you know i don't get it yeah someone else said that but it's it's the temperature is really low and it's got a lot of butter in it mm-hmm if it's a big salmon i think it's fine our salmon are fresh caught here no that's two okay that's 284 degrees fahrenheit okay i see that yeah you see it makes sense like if it's foiled it's wrapped like it goes right i don't have two and a half hours from my house to smell like fish though let's keep it a buck no because salmon doesn't like smell like fish in that way it was because i know what you mean like it's like when you fry it it will smell more oily because of like i don't know how it releases but when you roast it like that it's not as bad because i wouldn't want that either the aerosol release although when i originally cooked the two and a half the the the salmon it was with these like gigantic salmon which were like i don't know what your weights and measures are but like like if you had like ironically tell me in pounds please um 50 pounds and uh but that's our money so that's confusing and and and i it was in all night and it was in a massive georgian house in dublin in a in an agar overnight so i think that that was where the idea of how to cook it comes from which you don't have in yeah get a little 44 pound salmon i don't know why it's not published in america i don't know why people don't because like people keep

Saying like, oh, I don't know why it isn't. But maybe it's too English. Maybe they're scared of me. Well, I think it's the classic thing if you have to show and prove that it works in your own country before they will do a run. Go wide with it. We're not ready to go wide with you just quite yet. So who's hiring you to do all these freaky little dinners? What's the clientele looking like? Galleries and some individuals. Who's the most famous individual? The queen. Bro, hold the fuck on. You're telling me that I... No, not really. She's dead. I know she's dead, but I thought you were making a joke about some sort of royal family. You know what I mean? So you've prepared a royal meal? No, but I've prepared a meal for minor aristocrats, but they don't have any money. British is full of minor aristocrats. That doesn't really count. My client list is both... much better than it appears on paper and and also probably like embarrassing which is why i'm trying to get an agent to shop me around more so i make some money those things just seem so stressful to me you know what i mean because you're you're you're always in a new location yeah i assume you have a team you bring with you that's the same but everything else sort of is variable but i always do i design a menu like based on what the kitchen is there rather than the other around people like if it's far away i'll get a video or i'll do a site visit before and then i'll be like okay i can do this because i've like cooked for like 100 people in a tent on the top of a big hill in with like two gas burners then you're like okay well i'll cook what works for that instead of being like oh i'm gonna roast a salmon yeah that makes sense well i can't wait to hire you for a for a dinner one day i i want that it'll be a discounted rate but we'll figure it out i'll do it for free no don't no no no no exposure we got to pay for materials though yeah um i don't know maybe i'm because i ain't got time to go to the farmer's market so like i i'll give you my credit card or whatever but i can't really be going down i'll take your credit cards

And I'll, yeah, I'll just take your credit card. That's how we'll do the pain. That's it. Take the credit card. I'll give it back when I feel like it. He'll, yeah, he'll know which saffron you'll, you'll want the most, Chris. Don't worry. Oh, I know. Yeah. What did you cook when I ate? What did you, what did we have at Issy's house that night? Do you remember? I heard you saying when you were doing the intro that I was messy. The kitchen was, look, you were spread out in there. Let me say that. You were spatchcocked in there, is what I'm saying. That kitchen is really hard when there's a party because there's like 12 people standing in the kitchen. Look, I'm not disagreeing with any of these factors, but I'm saying I like a clean, personally. in my restaurant you didn't do a site visit before going because i i thought every kitchen you go into and you cook the meal according to that i'm just kind of confused now this is like firing line i just say you just said that contentious british literally just said that so i'm trying to understand i'm just trying to understand big bro it was fresh on the mind i was i was cooking with my buddy so i wasn't i you know if it was a professional kitchen i would have an assistant it would be clean I cooked like a variety of different flat fishes, didn't I? They were delicious. No, I remember it all being very good. It was like turbot, I think. Yes, a classic turbot. Yeah, a classic. do you have a turbot pan no i'd love one though isn't that a beautiful thing that they have the like the diamond shape is it shaped like the fit is it oh yeah yeah beautiful it's so that's cool it's sort of the the final boss of of copper cookware i would say is it's like the most unit tasker thing like you pull it out once every four years it costs you know eighteen hundred dollars i mean you could you could you could roast anything you wanted in there it's true but the shape the shape is particular. That could be good for an editorial. Yeah. Something random in the turbot pen? You're joking. chicken in the turbot pan now now i've heard everything i'd be on the news you're fucking joking they'd be like scandalized i'd be like the sex pistols i'd get the vapor the food community would come for your damn neck that's for sure all right so we had some fish and i feel like there was a salad that i like too but my memory is failing me no you're right it was a salad it was i think i believe it was either radicchio or puntarelli radicchio radicchio and i think there was some roast potatoes and then afterwards we had

some trifle i believe which is kind of like an english tiramisu i brought my own water to that dinner i came with two big big aviants for myself because i was thirsty i just wanted and you were talking you were talking to yassi yes and i was like you both are podcasters right because you were podcasting it was crazy like you weren't you yeah you were talking with two people when two people that have podcasts talk to each other that is technically a podcast whether mike's here or not That's honestly true. And then everyone else at the table, it's sort of understood that you will be quiet and only observe. Oh, we just watched. We just watched. It would be wonderful. You become an audience member. Wicked repartee that was coming off those two. Yeah, you guys just chewed. Okay, well, Chris, I'll ask you this question. How sexual was this meal on a scale of 1 to 10? I would say this setting was too friendly. Yeah. It was probably a six, seven. Yeah. But I didn't know anybody there except Issy and Yassi. But everyone was friendly. Oh, totally. I'm just saying it wasn't. I wonder how other people would answer this question because I don't know. You know what I mean? I don't know them. I don't think it was particularly sexy. It was friendly. But Jason's saying the sex is oozing out of you and you don't have a choice. It's on the plate. I don't have a choice. It's on the plate. It's in my hands, my face. i walk around i mean like i know that in america i've got like weird teeth and and like a funny face but in in on these islands they're like wow that is a that is a handsome young man right there sure so you're saying if you leave your zone maybe they miss misinterpret what you got going on but in the motherland they see you come and they say get out of the way actually you know what i said that but you know americans also they're falling over themselves it's even worse Okay, so you went from being big turbot small pond to just everyone is, every pond is full of shit water. No, the opposite. Every pond is full of ambrosia. Okay, well, so you're an aisle 10 and a mainland 6 is what you're saying. Mainland 7, island 10. Okay, well, are you consciously aware of the sexuality?

in your cooking and sort of lifestyle and philosophy or does it just kind of come out is it something that you're you're aware of and you try to include or is it something that you try to you know regulate even can i try and regulate oh my god yeah i actually try and regulate i try and make a little less come out than would naturally a little less come out you know in the same way that somebody's like hey this r-rated film should be pg-13 you know let's let's kind of cut some yeah depending on your audience yeah like jason's saying if you're cooking outside in ireland for some fat boys under some tents yeah it's like we're going to tone it down but if it's if it's you know vogue is coming to to xyz it's it's a little you're going to turn it up the fashion neurosis dinner american did a report on my on my book party that just came out today what'd they say that it was lovely they were very nice That's great. Okay. I'm saying they love you. They love you over here. Shout out to your PR. Nothing is to do with my PR. I do it all myself. Oh, I believe that. I mean, no, no, not nothing. Henry is great. I forgot this was public. I forgot this was public. I thought I was just with these two men. That happens to us all the time because our producer, Ian, he helps us out and he does so much on our podcast. But in every interview, Chris and I are like, it's just us, baby. We do it all ourselves. And it's easy to kind of slip into that mindset even if you don't believe it. It's like Joey Tribbiani in Friends when he gets fired from Days of Our Lives because he says he writes the script. No, I kind of do it all. I actually just kind of handle it myself. God damn it. God damn it. On the subject of serving weeknight meals, you sort of break dinner parties down into weeknights, weekends, Sunday lunch, long lunches, cooking for sick people, people you're fucking, people you're family, whatever.

And there's a chapter called Dinner for Lovers. And it was kind of interesting because it's, you know, you're really outlining the playbook for, you know, fucking food. You know what I mean? In so many words. Yeah. And I like that you were sort of... including the importance of like yes it should be a lighter meal yeah because of the because of the fucking but also like it shouldn't be so puritan that it sort of takes you out of that mood so really riding that sweet spot of you know the perfect amount of cum protein and stuff like that you know i'm sorry no no no i was i was enjoying and you said protein i was going too far it was beautiful it was a lovely description i yeah i mean That was nice to write. I think food is obviously inextricably linked to the erotic. Because it's also kind of disgusting, and the erotic is kind of disgusting. Yeah, I think about that a lot with foods that have nasty smells and pungent flavors. I should not be eating this blue cheese. Everything about me is saying not to have this... calf's brain or whatever but damn i want it despite everything i want it now can't resist yeah i don't know i like i like trying to i think that's a good example of like actually telling someone how to do it because i think if you were like a young person and you wanted to have someone around for a date it maybe you if you're not like me and you don't have like immediate natural riz maybe maybe having a book had to tell you it's good Yeah, you're saying young people learn from my mistakes. He doesn't have anything. Admire my riz. Just pure success. 100% success. But I mean, I've definitely cooked a lot of sexual meals and mistakes were made. You have to sort of learn the hard way. No, of course. But thanks to creators like you, many of our young people don't have to learn the hard way. Which, is that good or bad? It sort of goes back to our aging.

prematurely conversation from the beginning well no no woman's gonna no woman's gonna go to a guy's house for dinner at this point they're too afraid you got to take them to a restaurant you can't you can't do this anymore maybe in england in america if you if you ask a woman over for first date to cook and you're going to cook? Not first date. Third date. Fifth date, they ain't going to do it. What if you have a well-established DM convo? No, we know each other. We talked a lot. We matched. I didn't just pick her up at the Pizza Express. We've been dry brining for quite some time. Whenever I hear you guys, I always admire the breadth of knowledge you have for English culture. like pizza express is beautiful it is perfect and neither has ever eaten there but it's a it's a mainstay on many corners a logo that i admire but a great logo you know jason pizza express is it feels to me like a less swaggy mellow mushroom in many ways logo wise yeah i agree you know what i mean it's like an ai generated mellow mushroom logo what's a mellow mushroom Mellow Mushroom is an American delicacy that is located mostly in the southern region, I would say. It's a small chain. I bet there's 20 of them, maybe, 30. Small to mid-sized regional pizza chain that has a southern America hippie aesthetic to it. But it's low-key good. yeah it's like the food is like the pizza is good but it does it like each each person who owns one can kind of freak the decorations as much oh so it's got like a oh i love that where you have a franchise and so you have different yeah cool but it's but it's all the same but it's slightly different you know what i mean it's like they have a catalog they can choose from and each person chooses something different i would say is how i'm working but sorry i'm just bugging my computer well we're almost we're almost done so this shit's gonna die bro i gotta go okay well what a beautiful rustic kitchen behind you amazing kitchen thank you it is pretty you can check it out on the internet as well yeah i i feel like um i feel like the you know as a person who doesn't cook i'm very jealous of the um

Knife holder things on the wall. I've always thought those look quite cool. They're good. And also I always like think that if they were like zombies or Roadmen coming in and you needed to grab like something I have never in my life said Roadmen before but I thought This is the right place. The problem with having all of your murder weapons hung in plain view in the center of your room is those road men can use those knives on you. I have 50 drawers in my kitchen. The killing knives are only in one. By the time they get to them, road men dead. You guys should check out guns. It's a lot easier. That's the other problem. It's like putting your gun on the dining room table. You're asking to get shot. america i got to go shoot guns with this hillbilly up in the catskills that was so i'm sure does this hillbilly have a podcast no he didn't no he doesn't even know i didn't even know if he knew what a podcast was a real one you're in good hands brother he's a real one he didn't i asked it i got to his house and i was like can i have a glass of water and he was like what are you a queer yeah he called me a queer and um and um and he was like no you can't have a glass of water i don't have any more cups he was holding a tin cup and i was like what do you mean you don't have any more cups and he was like i have a canteen in this cup wow i have cup i have single cup yeah damn bro that sounds like me trying to get my flower rations yeah how did you incorporate the feeling of uh gunfire into the bedroom later that night I wasn't traveling with a sexual part. With a lover? I just masturbated and listened to the sounds that I'd recorded during the day. Sure, of course. Nothing like a gun going off. Sounds like a Bjork song. Yeah, it gets you on chub real quick. Jesus Christ. Put a Rosalia song on my headphones and start violently jacking in. Thank you for joining us. To Entertain is available anywhere except...

America is what it sounds like. Do check it out. No, it was good to see you. Thank you for joining us and hopefully we can break bread soon. We'll be in London soon. Yeah, we'll be in London a couple times this summer. We'll hit you up. I'm going to force you to cook for us in that freaky little kitchen. Yeah, I'd love that. Have a good time at the theater. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us. We've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's omni-shade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer at Columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia. Engineered for whatever.